Amiga questions you've always been too embarrassed to ask - Page 71

Jope · 05 June 2017, 16:38

Yep, the 30 sec rule mentioned in the manual is not a joke. DRAM takes a bit of time to evaporate after you power down.

I remember being shocked as a kid by some reset resident demo part that didn't disappear when I power cycled too quickly. :-)

jizmo · 06 June 2017, 07:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jope

Yep, the 30 sec rule mentioned in the manual is not a joke. DRAM takes a bit of time to evaporate after you power down.

I remember being shocked as a kid by some reset resident demo part that didn't disappear when I power cycled too quickly. :-)

Yeah I remember this happening to me as well. This was even more apparent on Atari ST where tons of demos of the era had a resident 'hidden' part.

Sinphaltimus · 08 June 2017, 00:58

Reading some topics on disk buffers and chip ram. If I understand them correctly, disk buffers take up chip ram. Is that true? is there anyway to move disk buffers to fast ram?

I'm asking because when I get my Vampire card for my 1MB chip ram A500, I will have 128MBs of fast ram. Would it not be better to move the buffers to fast ram and leave as much chip free as possible? With only 1MB of chip and using larger more numerous partitions I can easily run out of chip ram quickly if I don't manage those buffers carefully.

Gorf · 08 June 2017, 01:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinphaltimus

Reading some topics on disk buffers and chip ram. If I understand them correctly, disk buffers take up chip ram. Is that true? is there anyway to move disk buffers to fast ram?

I think that is only true for floppy disks, isn't is?
Buffers for scsi.device should be in fast ram.
but maybe I am completely wrong...

Amiga1992 · 08 June 2017, 01:27

I replied to him in another thread: when you have Fast RAM the buffers will reside there. Not sure about the DF0: ones, pretty sure they do too, because when I boot into my system that has extra Fast RAm, I always have basically all Chip RAM to myself.

Sinphaltimus · 08 June 2017, 01:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akira

I replied to him in another thread: when you have Fast RAM the buffers will reside there. Not sure about the DF0: ones, pretty sure they do too, because when I boot into my system that has extra Fast RAm, I always have basically all Chip RAM to myself.

Sweet, thanks for the reply.

Sinphaltimus · 22 June 2017, 12:46

Do the IDE adaptors that come with accelerators (like the Vampire for example) support more than one IDE device? Wondering if there is a master/slave config along with these or not. Could (by using the correct type of cable) 2 devices be supports like a CF-Card reader and IDE cd-rom? My gut tells me no because these smaller form factors do not have a master/slave jumper to set. Or do they handle that a different way and full sized 3.5" drive configurations? I should know the answer to this but I just thought about it and realized I have no idea. Perhaps I did know at some point but I'm blank at the moment.

Amiga1992 · 22 June 2017, 15:50

All IDE headers should allow at least two devices on one cable.
Master/slave is configured by the devices, not the IDE interface.
CF adapters DO have master/slave jumpers.

demolition · 22 June 2017, 15:56

It can be a bit messy to make IDE devices play nice together on the same cable though. The M/S jumper on CF adapters are merely a suggestion to the CF card and if it chooses to ignore it, then it will not work right.

Amiga1992 · 22 June 2017, 16:04

Interesting. Why is this though? PCs gladly accept two devices on one cable, and I've seen Amiga 1200s with a dual header cable leading to a hard drive and a CD-ROM.

Jope · 22 June 2017, 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akira

Interesting. Why is this though? PCs gladly accept two devices on one cable, and I've seen Amiga 1200s with a dual header cable leading to a hard drive and a CD-ROM.

It is down to the master device on the bus. If it is not able to detect a slave or chooses to not support any slaves, then the computer's CPU will not be able to talk to the slave.

Sinphaltimus · 22 June 2017, 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jope

It is down to the master device on the bus. If it is not able to detect a slave or chooses to not support any slaves, then the computer's CPU will not be able to talk to the slave.

Has anyone attempted this before? I guess this might be a question for the Apollo team since it's their ide controller specifically I'm wondering about.

EugeneNine · 22 June 2017, 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akira

Interesting. Why is this though? PCs gladly accept two devices on one cable, and I've seen Amiga 1200s with a dual header cable leading to a hard drive and a CD-ROM.

They had it but it didn't always work, there were compatibility issues. SATA fixed a lot of those issues when it was introduced.

idrougge · 23 June 2017, 01:38

SATA didn't fix any of those issues since it doesn't support two devices.

demolition · 23 June 2017, 10:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akira

Interesting. Why is this though? PCs gladly accept two devices on one cable

Even in a PC it doesn't always work as it is supposed to. I remember spending a lot of time in the 90s trying to solve the puzzle that was expanding my PC as much as possible. When I replaced a hard drive or, even worse, a CD-drive, I often had to try out several combinations before I found a configuration that worked. There was often problems if you had a CD-ROM drive on the same cable as a HDD while two HDDs usually worked fine together as master/slave. Sometimes master/slave did not work but setting both devices to cable select did for some reason.

Sinphaltimus · 23 June 2017, 11:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by demolition

Even in a PC it doesn't always work as it is supposed to. I remember spending a lot of time in the 90s trying to solve the puzzle that was expanding my PC as much as possible. When I replaced a hard drive or, even worse, a CD-drive, I often had to try out several combinations before I found a configuration that worked. There was often problems if you had a CD-ROM drive on the same cable as a HDD while two HDDs usually worked fine together as master/slave. Sometimes master/slave did not work but setting both devices to cable select did for some reason.

I experienced this as well but I found it to be more of an issue on name brand computers like Packard Bell or later HPs and Dells to name a few. The name brand computers seemed to favor a Cable Select configuration but clones seemed OK with Master/Slave. I always found that interesting. At least that was my experience.

My interest lies solely in leaving my SCSI adaptor connected for CD-rom. SCSI cd-roms aren't easy to come by on the cheap and they are all pretty long in the tooth so going IDE would be much better although it would require an adaptor and separate power. Perhaps I'll leave my SCSI controller connected and just run the damn this until it doesn't then worry about it. I also utilize ZIP drives.

I think once I get this Amiga on TCP/IP it will not be an issue anymore since the only reason for these additional devices is PC to Amiga transfers of larger files that take way too long over serial. Still, It would be nice to maybe have a second CF card reader attached if only used to backup the rest of the system.

I tend to play around with a lot and like an easy out should things go south. Like my primary ClassicWB setup in WinUAE now pauses at every boot because intuition is trying to reset the workbench and it wants me to close all windows, I click OK and everything continues as normal. No idea what I did but it's annoying and I didn't backup before fiddling around so I live with it. don't want to live with it on my amiga Hardware should I screw that up.

EugeneNine · 23 June 2017, 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by idrougge

SATA didn't fix any of those issues since it doesn't support two devices.

therefore compatibility of two devices on one cable issue was solved

Sinphaltimus · 23 June 2017, 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by EugeneNine

therefore compatibility of two devices on one cable issue was solved

I think "eliminated" maybe more accurate than "solved", there is a difference...lol.

demolition · 23 June 2017, 14:05

So if you go to the hospital with a broken toe and they cut off your foot, then that is indeed a solution to your initial problem.

The quote 'working as intended' comes to mind for some reason:
http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Working_as_intended
Yeah, I have played WOW for quite a while..

E-Penguin · 01 July 2017, 20:12

Is there a simple way, in a script, to check which CPU is installed? I alternate between a 68000 and a 68020 and would like to install optimised versions of libraries, etc, depending on which is in use.

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05 June 2017, 16:38	#1401
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,916	Yep, the 30 sec rule mentioned in the manual is not a joke. DRAM takes a bit of time to evaporate after you power down. I remember being shocked as a kid by some reset resident demo part that didn't disappear when I power cycled too quickly. :-)

08 June 2017, 00:58	#1403
Sinphaltimus Registered User Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Cresco, PA, USA Age: 53 Posts: 1,126	Reading some topics on disk buffers and chip ram. If I understand them correctly, disk buffers take up chip ram. Is that true? is there anyway to move disk buffers to fast ram? I'm asking because when I get my Vampire card for my 1MB chip ram A500, I will have 128MBs of fast ram. Would it not be better to move the buffers to fast ram and leave as much chip free as possible? With only 1MB of chip and using larger more numerous partitions I can easily run out of chip ram quickly if I don't manage those buffers carefully.

08 June 2017, 01:27	#1405
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,656	I replied to him in another thread: when you have Fast RAM the buffers will reside there. Not sure about the DF0: ones, pretty sure they do too, because when I boot into my system that has extra Fast RAm, I always have basically all Chip RAM to myself.

22 June 2017, 12:46	#1407
Sinphaltimus Registered User Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Cresco, PA, USA Age: 53 Posts: 1,126	Do the IDE adaptors that come with accelerators (like the Vampire for example) support more than one IDE device? Wondering if there is a master/slave config along with these or not. Could (by using the correct type of cable) 2 devices be supports like a CF-Card reader and IDE cd-rom? My gut tells me no because these smaller form factors do not have a master/slave jumper to set. Or do they handle that a different way and full sized 3.5" drive configurations? I should know the answer to this but I just thought about it and realized I have no idea. Perhaps I did know at some point but I'm blank at the moment.

22 June 2017, 15:50	#1408
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,656	All IDE headers should allow at least two devices on one cable. Master/slave is configured by the devices, not the IDE interface. CF adapters DO have master/slave jumpers.

22 June 2017, 15:56	#1409
demolition Unregistered User Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Copenhagen / DK Age: 44 Posts: 4,190	It can be a bit messy to make IDE devices play nice together on the same cable though. The M/S jumper on CF adapters are merely a suggestion to the CF card and if it chooses to ignore it, then it will not work right.

22 June 2017, 16:04	#1410
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,656	Interesting. Why is this though? PCs gladly accept two devices on one cable, and I've seen Amiga 1200s with a dual header cable leading to a hard drive and a CD-ROM.

23 June 2017, 01:38	#1414
idrougge Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Stockholm Posts: 4,357	SATA didn't fix any of those issues since it doesn't support two devices.

23 June 2017, 14:05	#1419
demolition Unregistered User Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Copenhagen / DK Age: 44 Posts: 4,190	So if you go to the hospital with a broken toe and they cut off your foot, then that is indeed a solution to your initial problem. The quote 'working as intended' comes to mind for some reason: http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Working_as_intended Yeah, I have played WOW for quite a while..

01 July 2017, 20:12	#1420
E-Penguin Banana Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Darmstadt Posts: 1,217	Is there a simple way, in a script, to check which CPU is installed? I alternate between a 68000 and a 68020 and would like to install optimised versions of libraries, etc, depending on which is in use.

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