10 June 2024, 23:38 | #121 |
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11 June 2024, 08:08 | #122 |
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11 June 2024, 13:57 | #123 |
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That's something anyone should judge by themselves.
What I can do (it just occurred to me) is to post a recording from my A1200, although with all the already mentioned limitations (no quality equipment). Maybe later today... |
11 June 2024, 14:10 | #124 |
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That would be nice! And the winuae version to compare it with
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11 June 2024, 15:57 | #125 | ||
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Quote:
https://www.realtek.com/Product/Inde...99&cate_id=195 Hardware Features
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Last edited by hammer; 11 June 2024 at 16:13. |
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11 June 2024, 16:28 | #126 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
Last edited by saimo; 11 June 2024 at 23:32. Reason: Added more information. |
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11 June 2024, 23:38 | #127 |
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@all
After recording the music from the A1200, I realized that it was way too noisy, so I realized that something must have gone wrong. It turned out that the last-minute changes to the converter (cWAV16toAQA1) were totally ill-advised and also buggy, so the converted music was affected by a horrible noise! I have uploaded the fixed version now - download from the usual place: https://retream.itch.io/hertz-overload And here is the sampled Amiga 1200 output (19 kHz, 32 bit float): https://www.retream.com/_temporary/P...ions-A1200.wav - grab it while it's hot, as sooner or later I'll remove it Moreover, in the afternoon, I couldn't help but make more volume-related tests. Very interesting results. I'll share them later or tomorrow, depending on how long it will take me to write the post. |
11 June 2024, 23:38 | #128 | ||
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Great work @saimo
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From a purely musical/artistic perspective, you'd get much greater gains in quality by good-old fashioned mastering (especially when we are talking about mixed tracks like this one). Better EQ to the instruments, compression and maximizing/limiting. The louder the track is, the easier it becomes hiding that pesky noise as well. Quote:
Afaik it can be disabled by tweaking the power led (can be done in software). Once I heard results without it I vowed never to go back (when it comes to game making on OCS). |
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12 June 2024, 00:12 | #129 | |||
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Thank you
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The tests I'm referring to were aimed at finding out how Paula works and how (im)precise it is, so the more precision the better Quote:
From the picture of the source 192 kHz 32 bit file you can appreciate the total lack of compression (click for full size): Quote:
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12 June 2024, 00:28 | #130 |
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@all
I just can't post the results now, but I have a question for the Amiga audio gurus out there. To scratch a certain itch of mine (which I'll tell you about), today I had to find out the formula that gives the ideal volumes listed at page 163 of the ARHM, and came up with 20*log(AUDxVOL/64) (with log(0) defined as -infinity) - the rounded results match exactly those in the table. Is the formula correct? If so, how does it relate to the samples amplitude? Maybe it should be 20*log(abs(AUDxDAT/128)*(AUDxVOL/64))? EDIT: I made a few tests with amplitude 64 and the measured results are not too far off from those given by the formula: * volume 64: formula -6.021, measured -5.597 * volume 32: formula -12.041, measured -11.823 * volume 8: formula -24.0824, measured -22.958 Big fat note: I didn't remove the weird DC-offset "peaks" that can be seen in the picture included in my post #118, so with proper measurements and equipment the results could be closer. Last edited by saimo; 12 June 2024 at 13:27. |
12 June 2024, 02:28 | #131 | |
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Quote:
A classic maximizer can do the critical peaks elimination for you automatically. You'd be surprised how much you'll be able to push it before you start actually hearing any distortion or change in quality. I usually do something around -5db with individual samples, you can probably set it even further for a track with zero compression and a wide dynamic range like this one. Overall this single step has yet to disappoint me so far as the difference on the Amiga side tends to be more than profound (especially when it comes to eliminating noise). As for purity, (and considering the genre) things getting a bit 'dirtier' can very well be a legit artistic choice |
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12 June 2024, 13:30 | #132 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
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12 June 2024, 15:20 | #133 |
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Latest findings...
As reported earlier, I had measured a volume discrepancy of -37.035+37.130 = 0.095 dB when playing a full-amplitude sine tone at volume 1 and periods 64 and 50, with the latter giving a louder output (as usual, click the pictures for full size): I couldn't scratch that difference off my mind, so I thought that maybe I should change the converter to take that into consideration when converting to 14 bits. First, I asked myself, which virtual volume in the Paula linear scale would give a difference of 0.095 dB against the volume produced by AUDxVOL set to 1, without distortions caused by the period? Unfortunately the AHRM, at page 163, just provides a table that lists all the <volume, dB> couples. From those numbers, I derived the formula 20*log(AUDxVOL/64) (with the convention that log(0) = -infinity). I don't know for sure if it's correct, but it provides values that, when rounded, match exactly those in the AHRM. The question could thus be formulated as follows: <dB given by the virtual volume x> minus <dB given by volume 1> i.e. 20*log(x/64) - 20*log(1/64) = 0.095 Doing the maths leads to x = 10^(0.095/20) = 1.0109973098876536037870941273379. Let's counter-check: 20*log(1.0109973098876536037870941273379/64) - 20*log(1/64) = -36.028599479677743425648667366939 + 36.123599479677743425648667366939 = 0.095 OK, it works. Therefore, in theory, the low 6 bits of samples should be somehow scaled down according to a factor of 1.0109973098876536037870941273379. Uhm... I smell precision issues. Also, which is the relationship between volume (AUDxVOL) and amplitude (AUDxDAT)? It is known that, at least in practice, it is not linear (hence the need to calibrate the 14 bit playback). I've been pondering a little bit on it and came up with the second formula I already mentioned, i.e. 20*log(abs(AUDxDAT/128)*(AUDxVOL/64)) (about whose correctness I'm all but sure), but before diving deeper I thought I'd better make more precise tests. Given that the sampled sine tone suffered from a little volume loss in general, I decided to go back to a square tone (as I had intended to anyway): And here's the same tone sampled from the Amiga: The last step was to sample the tone playing it at volume 1 with periods 64 and 50. However, this time I put extra care in removing those weird peaks shown in the first picture (they are not really peaks: periodically Paula introduces a little DC offset, and does so for many - if not all - combinations of volume and period). After removing them from a 5 seconds sample, the result was: I was utterly (and of course pleasantly) surprised that the volumes matched perfectly. Conclusion: Paula handles the volume regulation surprisingly well (although, as already said, not perfectly) and, at least for the specific case of Hertz Overload, I must no longer worry about extra distortions (not) introduced by period 50. test samples and pictures download (as usual, sooner or later I'll remove it from the server). Side note: I've been plugging and unplugging the cable into the PC line-in so many times these days that the jack is becoming a bit loose; I intended to sample also the noise floor of my machine, but I'll refrain from doing that. Last edited by saimo; 17 June 2024 at 13:33. Reason: Fixed typo. Added "(not"). |
16 June 2024, 12:23 | #134 |
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Big question is where some of those distortions are produced - in Paula or in surrounding audio circuitry.
Paula to control signal level use PWM - from one side this is very linear way but on opposite some problems occur related to slew rate. PWM demand high speed audio signal path (frequency 3.58MHz) - unless your circuitry has symmetric rising/falling edge response then some issues must be expected. IMHO OPAMP used in Amiga (especially working in I/V converter) are to slow to deal correctly with Paula PWM signal and this may lead to level and non-linear distortions observed. |
16 June 2024, 12:52 | #135 | |
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Quote:
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16 June 2024, 19:03 | #136 |
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16 June 2024, 20:41 | #137 |
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Yeah, precisely because I don't have the means to make a deeper and more scientific analysis, I was happy with knowing that Paula does adjust the volume for periods smaller than 64 (and maybe it's just part of the bigger picture: it must adjust also for any period not multiple of 64) and that for the specific case of the demo's period (50) the adjustment is practically perfect.
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