new amiga 500 doom like !

[grond]

Originally Posted by malko

Do you think he cares about what he said BitD ?
Not sure...

He would sure appreciate the coding achievement.

[rothers]

Originally Posted by malko

Do you think he cares about what he said BitD ?
Not sure...

He would, from what I've seen, absolutely love it. Any coder can appreciate the black magic that is this engine.

[eXeler0]

Originally Posted by Tsak

Adding floor and ceiling textures is surely possile. But performance will be hit hard. Since our target remains a500 it's unlikely we'll see anything like that anytime soon cause performance and a500 specs take high priority.
---><8

Good, that's the best part about Dread, that it runs on Vanilla A500+ /A600

[x-vision]

Originally Posted by Tsak

Adding floor and ceiling textures is surely possile. But performance will be hit hard. Since our target remains a500 it's unlikely we'll see anything like that anytime soon cause performance and a500 specs take high priority.

In the same vein, adding extra features targeting high end Amigas (say 1x1 res or what have you) is also possible but that will open up a whole can of worms that will make our lives far more difficult and exponentially multiply our workload. So long story short, all such features will only be considered once the project/commercially planned game and original premise is done or near completion.

To tell you the truth, even for variable floor heights I'm personally not that adamant if it means a big drop in performance. Imho the engine still looks and plays pretty well as is and I bet we can still create a superb game out of it.

Sure. I understand the philosophy and that's ok. But...

There will be a lot of R&D and it would be a real shame to loose it all, so the best solution is to keep it as it is for A500, and make a "Deluxe" or "AGA" or whatever you wanna call it, for High-End Amigas, especially AGA.

For this project, or a future expansion/sequel, whatever you prefer, but IMHO would be a serious waste to loose all the experiments KK are surely testing, and not use Hi-end configs at all.

[Tsak]

Originally Posted by x-vision

There will be a lot of R&D and it would be a real shame to loose it all, so the best solution is to keep it as it is for A500, and make a "Deluxe" or "AGA" or whatever you wanna call it, for High-End Amigas, especially AGA.

For this project, or a future expansion/sequel, whatever you prefer, but IMHO would be a serious waste to loose all the experiments KK are surely testing, and not use Hi-end configs at all.

Well, what I'm saying is that KK (and the rest of our team) only experiments on features that make sense or are plausible for the specific low-end configurations we're targeting. There's no other R&D done outside that scope...yet (that I know of at least).

Don't get me wrong, I'd also like to see AGA utilised at some point and more advanced options added, targeting higher-end Amigas, but all these often require massive engine rewrites and assets to be redone from scratch, so we have to be realistic. This is a huge and very complex project already. We need to be focused, prioritise and take one step at a time.

Rest assured I'll be the first one rooting for more eye candy, cool features and amiga goodness once we get there (which is my natural role as an artist of course )

[grond]

I guess philosophically targetting 7MHz 68000 is just right (we have seen more feature-rich engines on high-end Amigas, so better not make Dread unplayable on the low-end), then perhaps tackle the vanilla A1200 base configuration for a more advanced engine with similar FPS.

[nikosidis]

Originally Posted by grond

I guess philosophically targetting 7MHz 68000 is just right (we have seen more feature-rich engines on high-end Amigas, so better not make Dread unplayable on the low-end), then perhaps tackle the vanilla A1200 base configuration for a more advanced engine with similar FPS.

+1

Much of the point with this engine is to show that this kind of game can be done on low spes. hardware. Even vanilla A1200 do not have anything like this.
I would say that this game is for sure playable on A500 but vanilla A1200 CPU spec. is recommended.

I'm no expert but I would be surprised if someone will do a more advanced engine based on this one. What I think would be possible is that some maps people make could require more than 1MB RAM.

To my taste it is never done a original fps game for Amiga of this quality no matter what spes.
That is the funny thing
It is also great that the game will not run faster on anything over 030 and might even be buggy :P
Time to downgrade people :P

[grond]

Originally Posted by nikosidis

It is also great that the game will not run faster on anything over 030 and might even be buggy :P
Time to downgrade people :P

Well, I understand that saving a few cycles that on the other hand will cause fast CPUs to crash is important for the 68000 configuration and the ambitious goals of this engine but I think that a "bug-fixed" (can't really call it "bug" if it is an intended property of the code...) version for faster CPUs would be nice nontheless. Kind of doing the fixes that would have to be done for WHDload by the team themselves.

[roondar]

Originally Posted by nikosidis

Time to downgrade people :P

Yup, back to the roots

[Tigerskunk]

If I may add my 5 cents as someone who dabbled a bit in Amiga game dev...

My experience is, that, similar to how demos work you need to optimize the living shit out of everything if you want get out the best possible performance of a game running on the Amiga500.

Splitting this up into two code bases will probably introduce a lot of bugs and overcomplicate stuff and maybe also lead to not being able to optimize everything to run the way it does now on the vanilla A500.

I'd rather prefer the team keeps working on improving this running on a plain A500 than going for higher configs that have enough of these kind of games anyway.

[khph_re]

I'm loving this project on the A500. This engine, scorpion and red pill are going to open up whole avenue of game dev for those who who don't code well / or don't have the time to code from scratch.

AGA and other expanded Amiga's got plenty of love on the doom clone front, so I'd definitely like to see this given as much love as possible first.

[Danny911]

Hi! I have dreamed and followed everything 3d releated since i first saw Wolfenstein 3d running on a dos pc. I have an apollo 1260 since 1996/97 and i have the opportunity to play Doom,Duke3d,Quake,Descent,Rise etc....And i guess everyone with some extra hardware can do this. But...seeing this running on an Amiga 500 ocs/ecs makes me extremely impressed. This is soo awesome to me....What KK have done here is magic, i would even say genious. I would love to see what can be done on an Amiga 500/600 under the right minds Keep up the good work lads I'm a patreon,cause you guys are worth it

[nikosidis]

Originally Posted by Tigerskunk

If I may add my 5 cents as someone who dabbled a bit in Amiga game dev...

My experience is, that, similar to how demos work you need to optimize the living shit out of everything if you want get out the best possible performance of a game running on the Amiga500.

Splitting this up into two code bases will probably introduce a lot of bugs and overcomplicate stuff and maybe also lead to not being able to optimize everything to run the way it does now on the vanilla A500.

I'd rather prefer the team keeps working on improving this running on a plain A500 than going for higher configs that have enough of these kind of games anyway.

I can ensure you, it is what is happening

I guess it could be possible to use AGA chipset with this engine without to much trouble in the future.
The thing is, what make the Amiga beautiful, special?
I think it is within the OCS color limitatins, 8 bit audio etc.
AGA=to many colors :P

It seams to me that the more advanced Amiga configurations we get the more crap the games are.
There are for sure a few AGA games that are very nice. One recent example is Reshoot-R

[d4rk3lf]

Originally Posted by nikosidis

I'm no expert but I would be surprised if someone will do a more advanced engine based on this one. What I think would be possible is that some maps people make could require more than 1MB RAM.

I am also not expert, but from what I understood, the whole C2P routine is done with Blitter. And every Amiga (from A500 to A4000) have the exact same Blitter. So in order to utilize faster processors, KK must move these calculation from Blitter to processor (otherwise, Blitter would be bottleneck), and use Blitter for something else.
That would lead to huge re-write of the code, and ton's of time to be done + ton's of time fixing the bugs.

So it's perfectly logical that he stays focused on A500 version (that also takes ton's of time), and he wouldn't attempt stronger Amiga conversions until this version is 100% complete.

But what are you saying for maps that takes more then 1MB, maybe that is already possible?
I am not sure though, but I think engine don't force you to make a map at specific size.

[ESC]

Targeting the A500 is the right call and even without variable floor height this is far beyond anything we've ever seen on that system, you're doing good work guys!

If you would create a sequel later targeting the AGA machines I'm going to look forward to that too.

This project is super fun to follow, I hope you create a new update video soon, I do follow the discord as well but seeing everything explained in video form is a lot better, it also brings new eyes to the project

[nikosidis]

d4rk3lf:

This is just like many old games did. Example "Stunt car racer" right?

Talking about tons of time I think KK is like Mozart. What he is doing normal people would use 4 lifetimes

We for sure have to give a lot of credit to the gfx artists too.
Tsak is outstanding.

Also big thanks to the people doing maps.

As you might know there will be a special Dread game out of this. Not based on the maps people are doing.

[Tigerskunk]

I'd love to see demo sceners like TBL reacting to people telling them that EON would have looked much better on AGA060 than using only a crappy A500.

It's part of the charm of the whole thing that this works within those boundaries.
Why is this so hard to appreciate for some people?

[nikosidis]

Originally Posted by Tigerskunk

I'd love to see demo sceners like TBL reacting to people telling them that EON would have looked much better on AGA060 than using only a crappy A500.

It's part of the charm of the whole thing that this works within those boundaries.
Why is this so hard to appreciate for some people?

There was a time I did not get this.

When I got my A4000 back in the day I did not want to play other than AGA games and demos

Sure, back then we wanted Amiga to be the best since we where still kind of competitive with other platforms.

What I see now in retro platforms is the beauty of what they are.

It is a beauty in pixel gfx, colour limitations, colour palette, the SID chip, low resolution, 8-bit samples, Paula etc. etc.

Dread possible on original A500! Still do not understand it

Some things happen now that we could just dream of back in the day and that is for sure something people appreciate.

As people are different it is difficult to say what is right for everyone. Some people always want more

[Tigerskunk]

@Nikosidis: exactly what you said.
First off, the reason why people create games or demos nowadays for these old machines are very different from back in the day.
Secondly, if you just want better tech in games, why not just buy a PC?

[paul1981]

I hope it's not too 'Doomy' in the end. I'd love a unique fresh perspective like AB3D was (AB3D fanatic here!). I realise they have 1MB constraints, and I admire them for that. I wonder if there will be some atmospheric sfx like Hired Guns, and to some extent AB3D. It really added to those games and was the icing on the cake. Perhaps a 2MB version (lots of A500 owners have 2MB) could add extra/improved sfx, like an optional extra disk or something.