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#1221 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Brindisi (Italy)
Age: 70
Posts: 8,262
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Quote:
Now it's my sons who take me around, now have 40 and 36 years old, when they were little they drew on DeluxPaint, they also created animations, now they are as a hobby they are 2D and 3D graphic designers and Amiga doesn't interest them anymore. Look at the animations my children made when they were 9 years old: After 39 seconds [ Show youtube player ] Last edited by AMIGASYSTEM; 25 January 2023 at 00:39. |
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#1222 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: UK
Posts: 538
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Really great! Thank you so much for sharing. This will inspire the next generation.
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#1223 |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Brindisi (Italy)
Age: 70
Posts: 8,262
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Of course Amiga was teaching, now my children do this inmemory of Amiga:
https://www.youtube.com/@daniele_spadoni_82/videos |
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#1224 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Germany
Posts: 537
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Quote:
For example, the contemporaries of the Amiga operating system were the operating systems used by the Apple Lisa and the Apple Macintosh. Both were, in terms of design, using established well-known concepts, such as that you would use a 68000 trap instruction to call an operating system function. RAM was expensive, so these machines had little to use (e.g. 64 KBytes, like a Commodore 64). Also common at the time was the use of the first few "pages" of the adress space for operating system use, such as (I kid you not) was the case for the Commodore 64 (the "zero page"). The Macintosh operating system had a "zero page" and it took Apple years to wean developers off of its use. Also "also common" was the use of a single shared address space for everything, code, data you name it. This is what the architecture flavour of the year was, as it was. Fast forward some 10 years and you get BeOS, which did not use a shared memory space and offered POSIX APIs. It even had a Unix-style monolithic kernel to enable all of this. It could afford that because memory had become much cheaper during the past 10 years and the CPUs (yes: BeOS ran on the AT&T Hobbit, then the PowerPC, then the inevitable Intel offering of the day) had become more powerful and cheaper, too. Unless a lot has changed since I last looked at AROS, it still shares the same early/mid 1980'ies advantages and limitations in terms of architecture which gave us the Amiga operating system. These lines are very hard to redraw unless you are prepared to abandon every bit of software ever written for the platform. By comparison, BeOS had it "easier". Small bugs and errors do not bring down the operating system as swiftly as for Amiga OS, owing to memory protection and all those small but important foundational elements which Amiga OS lacks. Sure, both AROS and Amiga OS still see development and incremental change, but it is much harder to build robust software. This is one of the major, major challenges to overcome in terms of "friction". You have to be exceptionally careful not to knock over something by accident, you have to be prudent to play within the narrow limitations of what is considered "safe" in terms of APIs and data structures. This is 1980'ies style programming at its most sophisticated. Not everybody is cut out for that kind of task, to put it mildly. Passion will get you somewhere, but it will not get you everywhere and anywhere. Last edited by Olaf Barthel; 25 January 2023 at 11:38. |
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#1225 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Nuernberg
Posts: 818
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@shades_aus
as Olaf said AROS inherited the same advantages but also shortcomings of the old AmigaOS. You cannot overcome this without rewriting everything. And I would add... you still would have the same problems any niche OS has... not enough developer, driver and modern software. The idea to port important parts of Aros to a mainstream OS like Linux is much more promising (and that is what Deadwood is already doing). Future will be in my view: Aros 68k (including ApolloOS) Aros X86 (VM and real Hardware X86) Aros on Linux base (AMD64) my personal favorites are the 68k branch for the amiga retro market and Aros on Linux Last edited by OlafSch; 25 January 2023 at 12:06. |
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#1226 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,311
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Quote:
Sorry, but I do not know what this should actually mean. You are either Linux, or not. What you can try is to port some AmigaOs APIs to user-level libraries on top of Linux, if this is what you mean, but you'll have the same drawback as above (lack of a sufficiently large software pool) and you are also in competition with much more modern toolkits that have a much larger developer basis, such as gtk or qt. |
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#1227 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Nuernberg
Posts: 818
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@Thomas
Deadwood is porting Scalos as a real linux desktop and also aros components like zune running on top of linux (also can be mixed, f.e. Zune GUI using linux components). More on https://www.axrt.org/ Progress video with Scalos and Intuition on Linux: [ Show youtube player ] |
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#1228 |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Brindisi (Italy)
Age: 70
Posts: 8,262
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@Tommaso Richter,
I agree with you that an Operating System should walk on its own feet a Linux host in my opinion does not make any sense, you might as well use Linux since it is on the same machine. Running software via Host is like fooling yourself ! Regarding software, yes it is true that OS3 has a large software park, but on the new generation Amiga NGs, they do not work, work badly or are ugly to look at. AROS has a decent software park on "http://archives.aros-exec.org/" and it is all software rewritten for AROS, thus native. Thanks to Hollywood a lot of "modern" software works well, better than on OS3 "Too slow" for such software. AROS when it has Hardware compatibility, it can handle a modern Browser (OWB Upgraded), it can gesstire any multimedia, game 3D, having said that, surely it could be productive, and that will happen when developers come back, already now some are coming back. |
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#1229 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Nuernberg
Posts: 818
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@Amigasystem
We agree to not agree ![]() everybody can have his own opinion. We will see |
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#1230 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Poland
Posts: 308
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Quote:
Having said that, AROS is a very important branch and very welcome of course. |
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#1231 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Nuernberg
Posts: 818
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Quote:
but this general phrases like "Aros is alpha", "Aros is not even 3.1" or similar are nonsense (politely said). If you want the comparation we can start but then I compare it with my distributions... Last edited by OlafSch; 26 January 2023 at 10:02. |
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#1232 |
HOL/FTP busy bee
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Germany
Age: 46
Posts: 31,980
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#1233 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Nuernberg
Posts: 818
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@TCD
No this nonsense that is repeated again and again is nerving. If people claim that then I ask about knowledge and start to compare |
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#1234 |
HOL/FTP busy bee
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Germany
Age: 46
Posts: 31,980
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#1235 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Nuernberg
Posts: 818
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#1236 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,311
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Quote:
Branch? I hope it is not a branch. Otherwise, it would be vulnerably to all the license issues. Important? I do not know - what is the purpose? For something to be important, there need to be a use case. I personally do not have one. |
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#1237 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Brindisi (Italy)
Age: 70
Posts: 8,262
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Quote:
Regarding Hollywood programs, try it with the Amiga version if you can do what is shown in my video with RTunes, and then you will notice the differences ! [ Show youtube player ] |
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#1238 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Poland
Posts: 308
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I'm talking about m68k AROS (that's the only version I have experience with) with Amiga hardware, otherwise I wouldn't say "same software on the same hardware" because there's no way of natively running AmigaOS on anything else to compare.
By branch I meant branch of Amiga development. Every Amiga development is good (and wasn't some of AROS backported to AmigaOS4?). AROS is for Amiga what Debian is for Linux - it sets Amiga free from underlying hardware. Whether it's still Amiga then, is a debate that will find no definitive answer. To me Amiga is real hardware (today WinUAE) and AmigaOS. I personally have no use of PPC/AmigaOS4 or AROS. My experience with m68k AROS is that if I run system software on the same Amiga or WinUAE configuration, it is slower than AmigaOS (significantly less compatible, less stable and incomplete). Really nothing to be ashamed of for something rewritten from a scratch with little development resources. I use latest ROMs and releases from official AROS website. Of course if someone runs carefully handcrafted (x86) AROS distribution with recompiled software the experience may vary. Last edited by rutra80; 26 January 2023 at 14:34. |
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#1239 |
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Brindisi (Italy)
Age: 70
Posts: 8,262
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Also AROS 68k is much faster than OS3, when the core is finished it will be even much faster, of course not on the current Amiga, loves you need a more powerful Amiga.
This is my new AROS One 68k: [ Show youtube player ] Last edited by AMIGASYSTEM; 26 January 2023 at 15:29. |
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#1240 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Brindisi (Italy)
Age: 70
Posts: 8,262
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Quote:
Thomas is a good opportunity to try my AROS One x86, I would love your evaluation even if it is negative. AROS One x86 you can try it on the fly in two minutes with VMware, or in LivePendrive (there is a USB image) https://sites.google.com/view/arosone |
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