New products for C64 and Amiga from Individual Computers

[Turran]

Bastard =)

[lukassid]

Hmmm. I hope it isn't a joke. 149 euro isn't much for motherboard ask AmigaOne owners
I would buy one for sure.

[Schoenfeld]

The date for the news release was chosen in order to make people talk if it's real or not. The Wiki page was added a few days later to give a clear sign that it's not a joke.

Adding VGA/HDMI would have involved adding a Chameleon, which is a platform in itself. The target of the project was to have a replacement for existing, non-working motherboards. Schematics were only to be changed where the main functionality is not changed, and where changes to the case aren't required. If there's one big headline for this project, it's "keep it original". If you ask for a feature and want it in this board, then convince me with an original board that has this exact feature.

Most of the requests were for SD-card reader, VGA/DVI/HDMI monitor output, stereo-SID and PS2 keyboard/mouse connector. Further, many of those requests were combined with questions for a lower price. It doesn't work like that - you can't make more for less money. Essentially, these people were asking for a Chameleon (a 239,90 EUR product) that goes into a C64 case for even less than 149,- EUR. Sorry, but unless I get pre-paid orders for 100k units, that's out of the question.

As for "Amiga boards like this" - you surely don't mean AGA boards that go into a C64 case, right ;-)?

Jokes aside, new Amiga mainboards with real Amiga chipsets are on my agenda. I have lots of chipsets in stock that should be put to good use. However, I doubt that this is going to happen this year, because I have too many other projects to finish before I can turn to that.

Jens

[lukassid]

You on fire Sir. Such news and lemon64 is down.
I got cash ready for this.

[roy bates]

so,did i read that right?
the board is not fully populated for the 149 euro's,and have to get the cpu and sid?

so thats £123.56 roughly, for a board with no cpu,no sid and no case?

[Schoenfeld]

Originally Posted by roy bates

so,did i read that right?

Yes, you did.

Originally Posted by roy bates

the board is not fully populated for the 149 euro's,and have to get the cpu and sid?

so thats £123.56 roughly, for a board with no cpu,no sid and no case?

Yes - a board with a total of four Textool sockets, black solderstop, gold-plated surface, a true innovation in fixing a hardware-related bug that has only been explaned a little over a year ago (the VSP bug).

I wonder why so few people look at energy consumption. I mean, if you look at today's advertising, you get the impression that 5% or 10% saving is a lot. Cutting power consumption by over 70% appears to be drown in "april fool's joke fears". Why isn't "responsible use of electricity" a topic?

Jens

[NovaCoder]

Originally Posted by Schoenfeld

Jokes aside, new Amiga mainboards with real Amiga chipsets are on my agenda. I have lots of chipsets in stock that should be put to good use. However, I doubt that this is going to happen this year, because I have too many other projects to finish before I can turn to that.

Jens

Very interesting project, this is something I've been talking about for ages

Put me down of a drop-in A1200 motherboard please




'Clone-A'

[lukassid]

It's simple. You drop brain and soul of your own C64 into new motherboard for it to be immortal. I like it. 12v DC power without AC it's great idea. I wonder what picture quality will be like coming from modern circuit.

[roy bates]

Originally Posted by Schoenfeld

Yes, you did.


Yes - a board with a total of four Textool sockets, black solderstop, gold-plated surface, a true innovation in fixing a hardware-related bug that has only been explaned a little over a year ago (the VSP bug).

I wonder why so few people look at energy consumption. I mean, if you look at today's advertising, you get the impression that 5% or 10% saving is a lot. Cutting power consumption by over 70% appears to be drown in "april fool's joke fears". Why isn't "responsible use of electricity" a topic?

Jens

personally after over 20 years of using these im not really all that concerned about energy efficiency,although the more important problem of the faulty power supply taking out half the board is a problem on the original...

is there a reason it cant be shipped with a cpu and sid? or do you think they are hard to get.considering your using the original vic ii memory and cia's

the price point is a factor to me though,i wont pay that sort of money for a incomplete board,considering i can get a few original ones for far less than that.

as for the other points you have brought up,there of no interest to me.
the original works fine as is.
as is yours,it does exactly what the original did and nothing more.
and i would still have to source a cpu and sid and case plus keyboard at an extra cost.
which basically means stripping a machine of its guts to get this expensive board working as new from the factory just to be able to use a modern supply? not for me,im not that big a fan.
it maybe ok with a semi dead board "if" the cpu and sid still worked on it.

its a nice product,its just too expensive for what it actually is.


maybe you could explain this "bug" that makes the original inferior to the one you remade,does it effect the visual appearance on screen in some way,that an everyday user would appreciate?

[DonAmiga]

I like the idea of a replacement motherboard, so I would be interested

@Jens

Will this be available for pre-order through the retail like amigakit or just your own store?

Thanks
Don

[dJOS]

Jens, is there any chance of you selling direct to remove "middle men" margins and make it more affordable?

[Lord Aga]

Originally Posted by Schoenfeld

As for "Amiga boards like this" - you surely don't mean AGA boards that go into a C64 case, right ;-)?

Right

Originally Posted by Schoenfeld

Jokes aside, new Amiga mainboards with real Amiga chipsets are on my agenda. I have lots of chipsets in stock that should be put to good use. However, I doubt that this is going to happen this year, because I have too many other projects to finish before I can turn to that.

All right. Good stuff is worth waiting for.
This C64 board is terrific. New, top quality, lower power consumption. But I was never a C64 user, or fan, so I will pass.
I do hope for an Amiga motherboard in a similar manner though. That would get my money for sure

[Zetr0]

@IDEFix-Express

Originally Posted by IFW

Don't know about this specific case, but below at least 100 boards you get very expensive production... probably 500 to make some profit as well... or the price should be raised.

Well after looking at the product, components and PCB manufacture you would be looking at sub $12 per unit for 25+ units. Obviously manufactured in China / Asia

The real cost will be any licensing for the scsi.device / IDEFix Software.

[Zetr0]

Originally Posted by Retrofan

This is new and great C64 Reloaded... :

http://wiki.icomp.de/wiki/C64_reloaded




I am interested in 1 unit/2 depending price.

At €149 this is insane!

How many working C64's can I buy for this price!? A quick scan on eBay says nearly half a dozen!

I am sorry to be a downer on it, please let it be known that I truly enjoy a lot of Individual Computers products, and I consider very lucky to of met and enjoyed Jen's company a truly delightful fellow =)

I do hope that there is a market for this product, but sadly and perhaps its my narrow field of vision, but I cannot see it.

[ajk]

@Schoenfeld

As you probably well know, the video output on the original C64s can vary quite a bit, with all kinds of interference or signal leakage often seen on the s-video. Does your new board design improve on this?

[Turran]

Can we still use RGB (scart cable)?

Personally, I can buy a whole lot of working C64s for that price so I'm out as well. I understand the cost requires you to sell it for that price, but considering the C64 is the most sold computer of all time, there are plenty of working hardware for it, making it, in my eyes, the worst computer to manufacture new hardware for without significant improvements from the original.

Bug or no bug fix.. never heard of that bug, never affected by it as far as I know, for my gaming =)

[Retrofan]

If they would sell it also as a kit, or just the board...

[demolition]

Originally Posted by Turran

Can we still use RGB (scart cable)?

Personally, I can buy a whole lot of working C64s for that price so I'm out as well.
Bug or no bug fix.. never heard of that bug, never affected by it as far as I know, for my gaming =)

You could never use RGB with the C64. Scart cables use either composite or s-video and not all tv's could support s-video.
You can't compare a new board to an old used one. A better comparison would be what a new spare MB would have cost back in the mid-80s.
No games are using VSP as far as I know since it is a relatively new discovery. Maybe some new ones? It is mainly a problem with demos which can crash some 64s. But as it is exploiting a bug, it would not be wise to use it in a game. Thus, the 'bug fix' is not actually a bug fix as I see it, since it is unspecified behavior.

Originally Posted by Retrofan

If they would sell it also as a kit, or just the board...

Yes, that would be nice since I already have all the chips for it (except the EPROM).

Originally Posted by Schoenfeld

Adding VGA/HDMI would have involved adding a Chameleon, which is a platform in itself.

Does it have to be that advanced? I mean HDMI supports both 50 Hz and 60 Hz modes, so an ADC with a small FPGA to convert its output to HDMI format with simple pixel and line quadrupling should be less complicated. The output from the C64 is always progressive right? Then it would just output 50 Hz in PAL mode and 60 Hz in NTSC mode. That would also mean smooth motion and low latency. Of course then someone would want scanlines, blurring filters etc. which would ruin the simplicity.

[Turran]

Originally Posted by demolition

You could never use RGB with the C64. Scart cables use either composite or s-video and not all tv's could support s-video

Ah yes. I just ment Scart =) Guess that still works as before then.

Originally Posted by demolition

You can't compare a new board to an old used one. A better comparison would be what a new spare MB would have cost back in the mid-80s.

Not in theory, but in practice. If I have a broken C64 and want a new motherboard, do I pay 10-20€ for an old used one and get parts to spare or do I buy a new motherboard for 150€. Sure, it will be nice with a new one, but they do the exact same thing, so in practice there is no difference between them.

[Retrofan]

I like that most of the chips are socketed. With the program Jens is developing to find where the problems are in a mobo, it will be really easy to find and then change the problematic one. That means (to me) also it would be easy to sell it as a kit for the buyers to find any problem they could have with their chips/installation. I would agree to buy a mobo or kit without any warranty of course.