Using a Compact Flash card on a600/a1200 IDE - Page 6

Dexther · 29 January 2007, 20:57

umm
i need a metod to reach a compatibile card for my amiga 1200

Zetr0 · 29 January 2007, 21:12

@dexther

there are principly two methods of CF for the Amiga

1. CF by PCMCIA
this is by far the quickest method and is quiet easy to setup. at the moment this method is not bootable (but we are working on it)

2. CF by IDE
A little more difficult to setup but offers great speed and flexibility for the Amiga.

2.1
buy a CF to IDE converter (you can find these on ebay arround £2)

The best method to create a useable workbench and to prepare the disk is to use PC running WinUAE but you can use the OS3.1 install disks on the amiga.

an important note to make when preparing the the conpact flash card as a hard disk under HDTOOLS is to specify the MAXTRANSFERS to the following value 0x1ef0000 (this eliminates false checksum and read errors).

reading the posts here will help also.

dambuster · 30 January 2007, 19:01

@gizmomelb
thanks, im already using a cf /ide adaptor, but this will stop me having to lift the lid to change cards. Will probably look for a small card (sub 512mb) to use as a swap disk

gizmomelb · 31 January 2007, 03:36

hmm I was considering modding my A1200 so the CF adapter from the CF to IDE was poking out the side.. so the HDD could be easily pulled and connected to the IBM etc.

Zetr0 · 31 January 2007, 10:29

Heys buddy,

Heres an idea somewhat inspired by electroblaster

I did test this and it does fit awsomely. have a look at page two on this thread..

dambuster · 01 February 2007, 22:13

Considered that mod when fitting my dvdr, but didnt have enough space for that and the dvd.

However I did consider using the expansion slot by the mouse port, single card but be careful which adaptor you get, you need a horizontal connector, verticle as in above pic fouls bottom of floppy drive. Final resting place for mine will probably out of the back the upper case, may even verticle mount it

dambuster · 01 February 2007, 22:52

For desktop m/cs these may be of interest
http://linitx.com/product_info.php?c...a4be56389e1eba
or
http://linitx.com/product_info.php?c...oducts_id=1180

Zetr0 · 01 February 2007, 23:00

I tell ya what damnbuster.... that vertical mounting would be awsome retro.... just like an old atri vcs /2600

sweet!

dambuster · 01 February 2007, 23:08

Thats what I thought, and the CF cards are only slightly thicker than the cooling slots mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Just as well my pals borrowed the dremmel, allows a little more thinking time - aw soddit pass the hack saw ive still got plenty of isopon

Dexther · 01 February 2007, 23:16

i'm Found on Ebay a interface mount a 2in 1 cf on One Ide
My intention are to fit 2 compact flash
1 on os 3.9 (512Mb) end 2 Cf on a my complete colection on whdload (4gb )

Is are are possibile to work on Amiga 1200 ?

dambuster · 01 February 2007, 23:25

@Dexther
no probs youll normally find a jumper that allows you select which card will master/slave

Dexther · 01 February 2007, 23:49

end for a dvd ?

The supply of 1200 classic are a good for this operation ?

dambuster · 02 February 2007, 00:06

@Dexther
for dvd try this
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=27234

youll need a better power supply than the standard brick, an atx supply works well, see this http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=27830

like several others i wired a seperate "power bus" direct from the power socket to provide a +12v, +5v & 0v for the DVD / CF devices

Faerytale · 19 February 2007, 21:29

expensive but cool..

http://www.geekstuff4u.com/product_i...roducts_id=492

Jope · 19 February 2007, 21:41

Heh, fun idea, but a CF-adapter + CF-card is probably faster and cheaper. :-)

th4t1guy · 20 February 2007, 05:49

I just noticed this thread the other day, and it really got me thinking about switching to a CF. I just have a few questions about the whole thing.

First of all, my setup is a cd32 with the sx-1 expansion. I currently have an 812meg laptop harddrive in there with OS3.9 installed.

1. Is the power consumption less with a CF card + 44-pin IDE adapter or with the laptop harddrive?

2. Someone I talked to brought up an idea that using CF as a harddrive has too many read/writes for it to maintain accuracy over an extended period of time. Any thoughts on this?

3. About how long do CF cards last? Is this something I'll have to replace or redo all my data in 7 years?

4. Is CF just as fast if not faster then a normal harddrive using the SX-1 IDE controller?

5. Does anyone have a list of brands of adapters or cards that are known to work?

6. What's the maximum size for a CF card used as an IDE device? Do I have to do anything funky to get it to work? (multiple partitions, IDEfix etc.)

Thanks guys. It's nice to see everyone keeping the Amiga alive here.

Zetr0 · 20 February 2007, 17:18

@th4t1guy

1.
power consumption is less with a CF card as for one they dont have any no moving parts. this reduces heat, noise and the all to common delayed spinup-time!

2.
CF cards can have a bit/byte bock re-written (depening on maunfactures geometry) atleast 1million times (sandisk claim!) this means you could low level format (write '0's ) 10 times a day for 300 years and still have plently of times left over. *(generaly branded cards make this claim). some OS's constantly write and re-write to the ide device (wondoze for 1) and this can reduce life expectancy.

3.
Data concurancy during a dormant state, depends on several environmental conditions (namley tempreture, RF/EMI magnatism etc.) but if kept well its comparable with a CD/DVD technologly wich is about 20 years

4.
CF cards have a seriously reduced seek time infact its neglagible compaired even to SCSI! however its limmited to bus speed for transfer and on an ATA100machine its 100Mb (about 12.8Megabytes persec read slightly slower for write) internal transfer rates vairy, but again limmited to the speed of the reading device! (a CF card can easly max out the Amiga IDE or even SX-1 IDE *and have a good 80Mb to spare lol)

5.
I have been helping gizmomelb in his project to MAP cards that work as an ATA complant device for the amiga. the results are interesting and more studdy is what gizmomelb is doing now. a preliminary to this is that MOST CF type 2 ( NON vairvolt ) seem to work well. this is just a preliminary, most certainly gizmomelb will have more info.

6.
Maximum supported disk size.... well there getting bigger all the time, especially now there combining a controller to allow multiple cards to act as one unit. but as i write this the largest i have seen is 32GB Compact Flash card (dont ask the price!) 16GB's are cheaper but i doubt you will get much change outa £200.

as you know the amiga has a maximum primary partition of 4GB any thing after that usually has issues unless you update your OS software to include better disk-format-structures (geometrys) and even then its suggested to consider a small booting independent device that mounts a much larger one. under OS3.9 I have know poeple to have over 200GB setup! (all booting from a smaller <1gb drive!)

anyways... hope it helps.

[edit]
you only need an IDEfix if you have the IDE buffered hardware device connected to you amiga motherboard. I would recomend the use of a buffered interface only if you are using more than one device on the Amiga IDE chain. a buffered device means that the cables can be longer and specifically each device would not interfere with the other. IDEfix97 is a good solution but there are others such like IDEmax and EIDE99 www.amigakit.com stock a range of ID products for your perusing leasure and there shipping and handling is pretty much second to none i have to say! (they do deliver to the states

)

Fingerlickin_B · 21 February 2007, 08:57

I have a question regarding the whole "max transfer" setting thing.

"ve no idea how to write Amiga code and I've seen settings represented as code, and people just saying to set it a certain way, without being specific.

Both my A600s are running CF cards as HDDs (different brands) and I never changed any transfer settings (don't know how)...they work great

Is there any reason I should even bother changing the transfer speed?

PZ.

Jope · 21 February 2007, 11:14

It is a block size and if it works great, don't change it. If it doesn't change it to 0x1fe00.

This is usually a hard drive problem, though. It seems that the CF cards can accept any size transfer blocks?

What do you have yours set to?

Fingerlickin_B · 22 February 2007, 00:58

As I said above, I don't know...don't know how to check, don't know how to change...oops!

31 January 2007, 10:29	#105
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	case modding eh? Heys buddy, Heres an idea somewhat inspired by electroblaster I did test this and it does fit awsomely. have a look at page two on this thread..

20 February 2007, 17:18	#117
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	@th4t1guy 1. power consumption is less with a CF card as for one they dont have any no moving parts. this reduces heat, noise and the all to common delayed spinup-time! 2. CF cards can have a bit/byte bock re-written (depening on maunfactures geometry) atleast 1million times (sandisk claim!) this means you could low level format (write '0's ) 10 times a day for 300 years and still have plently of times left over. (generaly branded cards make this claim). some OS's constantly write and re-write to the ide device (wondoze for 1) and this can reduce life expectancy. 3. Data concurancy during a dormant state, depends on several environmental conditions (namley tempreture, RF/EMI magnatism etc.) but if kept well its comparable with a CD/DVD technologly wich is about 20 years 4. CF cards have a seriously reduced seek time infact its neglagible compaired even to SCSI! however its limmited to bus speed for transfer and on an ATA100machine its 100Mb (about 12.8Megabytes persec read slightly slower for write) internal transfer rates vairy, but again limmited to the speed of the reading device! (a CF card can easly max out the Amiga IDE or even SX-1 IDE and have a good 80Mb to spare lol) 5. I have been helping gizmomelb in his project to MAP cards that work as an ATA complant device for the amiga. the results are interesting and more studdy is what gizmomelb is doing now. a preliminary to this is that MOST CF type 2 ( NON vairvolt ) seem to work well. this is just a preliminary, most certainly gizmomelb will have more info. 6. Maximum supported disk size.... well there getting bigger all the time, especially now there combining a controller to allow multiple cards to act as one unit. but as i write this the largest i have seen is 32GB Compact Flash card (dont ask the price!) 16GB's are cheaper but i doubt you will get much change outa £200. as you know the amiga has a maximum primary partition of 4GB any thing after that usually has issues unless you update your OS software to include better disk-format-structures (geometrys) and even then its suggested to consider a small booting independent device that mounts a much larger one. under OS3.9 I have know poeple to have over 200GB setup! (all booting from a smaller <1gb drive!) anyways... hope it helps. [edit] you only need an IDEfix if you have the IDE buffered hardware device connected to you amiga motherboard. I would recomend the use of a buffered interface only if you are using more than one device on the Amiga IDE chain. a buffered device means that the cables can be longer and specifically each device would not interfere with the other. IDEfix97 is a good solution but there are others such like IDEmax and EIDE99 www.amigakit.com stock a range of ID products for your perusing leasure and there shipping and handling is pretty much second to none i have to say! (they do deliver to the states ) Last edited by Zetr0; 20 February 2007 at 17:27.

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29 January 2007, 20:57	#101
Dexther Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: italy Age: 46 Posts: 148	umm i need a metod to reach a compatibile card for my amiga 1200

29 January 2007, 21:12	#102
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	@dexther there are principly two methods of CF for the Amiga 1. CF by PCMCIA this is by far the quickest method and is quiet easy to setup. at the moment this method is not bootable (but we are working on it) 2. CF by IDE A little more difficult to setup but offers great speed and flexibility for the Amiga. 2.1 buy a CF to IDE converter (you can find these on ebay arround £2) The best method to create a useable workbench and to prepare the disk is to use PC running WinUAE but you can use the OS3.1 install disks on the amiga. an important note to make when preparing the the conpact flash card as a hard disk under HDTOOLS is to specify the MAXTRANSFERS to the following value 0x1ef0000 (this eliminates false checksum and read errors). reading the posts here will help also.

30 January 2007, 19:01	#103
dambuster Zone Friend Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Dundee / Scotland Posts: 151	@gizmomelb thanks, im already using a cf /ide adaptor, but this will stop me having to lift the lid to change cards. Will probably look for a small card (sub 512mb) to use as a swap disk

31 January 2007, 03:36	#104
gizmomelb Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: melbourne Age: 55 Posts: 541	hmm I was considering modding my A1200 so the CF adapter from the CF to IDE was poking out the side.. so the HDD could be easily pulled and connected to the IBM etc.

01 February 2007, 22:13	#106
dambuster Zone Friend Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Dundee / Scotland Posts: 151	Considered that mod when fitting my dvdr, but didnt have enough space for that and the dvd. However I did consider using the expansion slot by the mouse port, single card but be careful which adaptor you get, you need a horizontal connector, verticle as in above pic fouls bottom of floppy drive. Final resting place for mine will probably out of the back the upper case, may even verticle mount it

01 February 2007, 22:52	#107
dambuster Zone Friend Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Dundee / Scotland Posts: 151	For desktop m/cs these may be of interest http://linitx.com/product_info.php?c...a4be56389e1eba or http://linitx.com/product_info.php?c...oducts_id=1180

01 February 2007, 23:00	#108
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	I tell ya what damnbuster.... that vertical mounting would be awsome retro.... just like an old atri vcs /2600 sweet!

01 February 2007, 23:08	#109
dambuster Zone Friend Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Dundee / Scotland Posts: 151	Thats what I thought, and the CF cards are only slightly thicker than the cooling slots mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Just as well my pals borrowed the dremmel, allows a little more thinking time - aw soddit pass the hack saw ive still got plenty of isopon

01 February 2007, 23:16	#110
Dexther Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: italy Age: 46 Posts: 148	i'm Found on Ebay a interface mount a 2in 1 cf on One Ide My intention are to fit 2 compact flash 1 on os 3.9 (512Mb) end 2 Cf on a my complete colection on whdload (4gb ) Is are are possibile to work on Amiga 1200 ?

01 February 2007, 23:25	#111
dambuster Zone Friend Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Dundee / Scotland Posts: 151	@Dexther no probs youll normally find a jumper that allows you select which card will master/slave

01 February 2007, 23:49	#112
Dexther Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: italy Age: 46 Posts: 148	end for a dvd ? The supply of 1200 classic are a good for this operation ?

02 February 2007, 00:06	#113
dambuster Zone Friend Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Dundee / Scotland Posts: 151	@Dexther for dvd try this http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=27234 youll need a better power supply than the standard brick, an atx supply works well, see this http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=27830 like several others i wired a seperate "power bus" direct from the power socket to provide a +12v, +5v & 0v for the DVD / CF devices

19 February 2007, 21:29	#114
Faerytale Zone Friend Join Date: May 2005 Location: Under a rock Posts: 110	expensive but cool.. http://www.geekstuff4u.com/product_i...roducts_id=492

19 February 2007, 21:41	#115
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,885	Heh, fun idea, but a CF-adapter + CF-card is probably faster and cheaper. :-)

20 February 2007, 05:49	#116
th4t1guy Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Kansas City, MO, USA Posts: 683	I just noticed this thread the other day, and it really got me thinking about switching to a CF. I just have a few questions about the whole thing. First of all, my setup is a cd32 with the sx-1 expansion. I currently have an 812meg laptop harddrive in there with OS3.9 installed. 1. Is the power consumption less with a CF card + 44-pin IDE adapter or with the laptop harddrive? 2. Someone I talked to brought up an idea that using CF as a harddrive has too many read/writes for it to maintain accuracy over an extended period of time. Any thoughts on this? 3. About how long do CF cards last? Is this something I'll have to replace or redo all my data in 7 years? 4. Is CF just as fast if not faster then a normal harddrive using the SX-1 IDE controller? 5. Does anyone have a list of brands of adapters or cards that are known to work? 6. What's the maximum size for a CF card used as an IDE device? Do I have to do anything funky to get it to work? (multiple partitions, IDEfix etc.) Thanks guys. It's nice to see everyone keeping the Amiga alive here.

21 February 2007, 08:57	#118
Fingerlickin_B Amiga Nut Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Belco, Australia Posts: 2,242	I have a question regarding the whole "max transfer" setting thing. "ve no idea how to write Amiga code and I've seen settings represented as code, and people just saying to set it a certain way, without being specific. Both my A600s are running CF cards as HDDs (different brands) and I never changed any transfer settings (don't know how)...they work great Is there any reason I should even bother changing the transfer speed? PZ.

21 February 2007, 11:14	#119
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,885	It is a block size and if it works great, don't change it. If it doesn't change it to 0x1fe00. This is usually a hard drive problem, though. It seems that the CF cards can accept any size transfer blocks? What do you have yours set to?

22 February 2007, 00:58	#120
Fingerlickin_B Amiga Nut Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Belco, Australia Posts: 2,242	As I said above, I don't know...don't know how to check, don't know how to change...oops!

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