Final Fight: Enhanced

[Howardphilips]

Commenting on another final fight sprite engine on the A1200:
This looks incredible! Good luck to the developer if it's to be a full game.

I'm not stopping my version, but it's making me re-think some limitations. Maybe games 'should' start using all the RAM/gear slots to use systems at their full potential.

https://t.co/Tkh5EvYd94

Source: https://mobile.twitter.com/Brick_Nas...DUtcf35PgsAAAA

[Howardphilips]

Note: the sprite engine commented on needs 16Mo of RAM (12 Mo without sound), room for optimisation.

[dlfrsilver]

Originally Posted by Howardphilips

Note: the sprite engine commented on needs 16Mo of RAM (12 Mo without sound), room for optimisation.

normal. And it looks very good.

[Konrad]

Originally Posted by TCD

Just had a look at the graphics on HOL and it seems it's the same palette for all stages. Tech noob here, but wouldn't it be possible to change the palette per stage and leave the graphics as they are?

I'm convinced that a good pixel artist could work with a unified palette.
Don't know the restrictions on the Amiga, but there are f.ex. good pallettes from Dawnbringer (16col and 32col).
It's not done very well in Amiga Final Fight.

But as you suggested, a few colors could surely be swapped out per stage, to improve graphics quality there.

[TCD]

Originally Posted by Konrad

But as you suggested, a few colors could surely be swapped out per stage, to improve graphics quality there.

As you suggest a better single palette would already help a lot. The palette used in Final Fight on the Amiga is very brown and blue centered. Just noticed when looking at HOL that the different stages would benefit from having their own palette.

[Retro1234]

That would be hard because the 16 colours would be used for the Bobs as-well

[Retro1234]

or the players would have to change colour each level.
Or if you could get all the Bobs under 15 colours that would give you some free colours to play with.

Or just a better single palette and improved graphics used throughout the game.


I don't know how many colours that 'other' demo is supposed to use but can you imagine how slow that would be on 68020

[Howardphilips]

Originally Posted by Retro1234

I don't know how many colours that 'other' demo is supposed to use but can you imagine how slow that would be on 68020

If you are speaking about the Youtube video, it states 8 bitplanes, so I assume up to 256 colours. Test working splendidly on an emulated 68020, provided you have so much RAM (16 Mo).

[Retro1234]

I won't get into it but seems a bit unbelievable.

[Samurai_Crow]

Originally Posted by Howardphilips

If you are speaking about the Youtube video, it states 8 bitplanes, so I assume up to 256 colours. Test working splendidly on an emulated 68020, provided you have so much RAM (16 Mo).

8 bitplanes would be too slow. Reusing palette entries for different colors using the Copper coprocessor is the Amiga way. Metro Siege does that extensively on its 4-bitplane screenmode. 60+ colors from a 16 color screen is much faster.

[TCD]

Originally Posted by Retro1234

That would be hard because the 16 colours would be used for the Bobs as-well

Good point. Maybe it could use 8 static (for bobs) and 8 dynamic. Of course Samurai's method would be optimal. Whatever improves the port would be fine for me

[dlfrsilver]

Originally Posted by Samurai_Crow

8 bitplanes would be too slow. Reusing palette entries for different colors using the Copper coprocessor is the Amiga way. Metro Siege does that extensively on its 4-bitplane screenmode. 60+ colors from a 16 color screen is much faster.

Well, let the guy go further with more sprites. After all, the 8bpl mode was not really mastered until now.....

[Retro1234]

Is it real?

[Retro1234]

But anyway what Brick Nash has done already is very impressive

[Howardphilips]

Originally Posted by Samurai_Crow

8 bitplanes would be too slow. Reusing palette entries for different colors using the Copper coprocessor is the Amiga way. Metro Siege does that extensively on its 4-bitplane screenmode. 60+ colors from a 16 color screen is much faster.

If you have technical comments or questions, best raise them to the author of the video ("Amiga Game Developer") on his YouTube. I only cited what he specified in his description of what is only a technical demo at the moment.
I'll stop discussing this slightly off topic section for my part.

[Samurai_Crow]

Originally Posted by Howardphilips

If you have technical comments or questions, best raise them to the author of the video ("Amiga Game Developer") on his YouTube. I only cited what he specified in his description of what is only a technical demo at the moment.

I'll stop discussing this slightly off topic section for my part.

The techniques I described are from a commercial beat 'em up game by BitBeamCannon called Metro Siege. The technical aspects of the engine are by @Michael Parent whose artwork is complemented by the coding abilities of @alpine9000 . Their YouTube channel is https://youtube.com/@bitbeamcannon2468 if you want to sift through the mountains of game art techniques used in their games.

[Korban]

Originally Posted by Retro1234

I don't know how many colours that 'other' demo is supposed to use but can you imagine how slow that would be on 68020

It's a single moving character with no enemy AI to worry about as yet, so thus far there's nothing particularly impressive about it. In fact the need to 16MB seems strange. What is showcased could be done on a stock a1200 with no fast ram.

Not to suggest what he's achieved isn't impressive, it could be, there's just nothing showcased yet that is (unless there's other demonstrations other than the video linked to in here, I'm going solely by the linked video).

[Samurai_Crow]

Originally Posted by TCD

Good point. Maybe it could use 8 static (for bobs) and 8 dynamic. Of course Samurai's method would be optimal. Whatever improves the port would be fine for me

Metro Siege reserves 12 of the 16 palette entries for bobs and gradient shades the rest mercilessly. Furthermore, sprites use palette entries 16-31, thus their colors are free from palette collisions when using a 4 bitplane screen.

[Howardphilips]

Originally Posted by Samurai_Crow

The techniques I described are from a commercial beat 'em up game by BitBeamCannon called Metro Siege. The technical aspects of the engine are by @Michael Parent whose artwork is complemented by the coding abilities of @alpine9000 . Their YouTube channel is https://youtube.com/@bitbeamcannon2468 if you want to sift through the mountains of game art techniques used in their games.

I was only responding to the comment that 8 bitplanes "would be too slow". I do not criticise your technical knowledge nor Metro Siege, which is looking awesome but is yet to be played afaik. 8 bitplanes for a technical demo with no AI and only one moving sprite seems possible, even if I believe this could be massively optimised (granted I don't have the tech skills to substantiate this). A demo is not a full game, like Metro Siege will be.

[DanyPPC]

Holy words

Even Team17 make AGA games with only 7 bitplanes.