Fast Red Zone and other fastmem-relocated projects

[jotd]

Yes, not too difficult I may even have the source code for those slaves, and the 3D sections will probably be much faster.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by jotd

Ahh Psygore did that. Psygore = no source code _ever_. You'll have to ask him

Although he hasn't touched 3D Construction Kit 2.0........


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3D_Construction_Kit_II

[jotd]

some little projects for this summer holidays!

[Reynolds]

I just wonder, if games like Fighter Bomber, The Killing Cloud and Epic could be updated a bit?
Killing cloud is the slowest, unplayable vector game on Amiga on any config, while although Epic is fast, the scenery distance is kinda short. It would be stunning to have these with better FPS...

[alexh]

Originally Posted by Reynolds

Killing cloud is the slowest, unplayable vector game on Amiga on any config

There is a chance this game could be modified like the others that jotd has kindly done to use FAST RAM but is there a will? Was this a good enough game? I think there are far more vector graphics games with more appeal waiting to be done.

Originally Posted by Reynolds

while although Epic is fast, the scenery distance is kinda short.

Unlikely to happen that means changing the design of the game which is beyond the scope of improvements like relocating to FAST RAM.

[jotd]

quick test: if Killing Cloud runs smoothly on WinUAE then it can run smoothly on 030+ when relocated to fast ram

I had a quick go at Epic (just ran it on winuae) and it was super-smooth. I think those DID games can benefit from fastmem reloc.

[Reynolds]

Originally Posted by alexh

There is a chance this game could be modified like the others that jotd has kindly done to use FAST RAM but is there a will? Was this a good enough game? I think there are far more vector graphics games with more appeal waiting to be done.


Unlikely to happen that means changing the design of the game which is beyond the scope of improvements like relocating to FAST RAM.

Noone really found it outstanding yet due to it's awkward fps. KC is a really nice game could be with framerate reaching a playable level. I don't really think that it draws more polygons than Jetpilot or Tornado, which are running really smoothly on 060.

If Epic wouldn't be modded such deeply, still, squeezing out more frames could make it to get a new feel. A bit sad to see such an amazing game with the same framerate on 060 than with a plain A500... or maybe a 020 accelerated config.

[Angus]

I thought The Killing Cloud wasa fine game, and this bright young reviewer (also very good looking, I'm told) seems to agree with me. :-)
http://agdb.abime.net/DBA1/KillCl.html

By the way, I'm hazy (see what I did there) about the details, but I think you can press "6" or something on the first level(?) which removes the cloud and displays San Francisco in it's full polygonal glory.

[Reynolds]

Originally Posted by Angus

I thought The Killing Cloud wasa fine game, and this bright young reviewer (also very good looking, I'm told) seems to agree with me. :-)
http://agdb.abime.net/DBA1/KillCl.html

By the way, I'm hazy (see what I did there) about the details, but I think you can press "6" or something on the first level(?) which removes the cloud and displays San Francisco in it's full polygonal glory.

The function you mentioned is valid on level 1 only, just as you said. It doesn't works on later levels, albeit I never saw just the first one as I wasn't good enough to progress :P

[jotd]

just checked in WinUAE and KC seems to run with a good framerate (I had a hard time starting the ship and moving, but from what I see there was at least 20-25 fps)

so another good candidate for fastmem reloc.

The candidates so far (games properly designed to run with the best possible framerate but lacked the ability to be located in fastmem)

NASCAR
Days of Thunder <- can have fastmem (exe) but game has bad reputation
3D Construction utility 2
DarkSide (https://hol.abime.net/275): seems to use freescape, so easily relocatable &
TotalEclipse (https://hol.abime.net/1473)
3D Construction kit 2 (http://hol.abime.net/2354)
Conqueror (check if possible)
Interphase
Starglider 2: started that one
Epic
The killing cloud: **working on that right now**
Midwinter
Robocop 3D
Infestation
CyberCon III
Arctic Fox
Hunter: started that one, not trivial
Virus

[alexh]

Starglider, Starglider2 and Birds of Prey will almost certainly share similarities as they were all coded by the same team at Argonaut.

Virus might be an interesting one to look at? It was notably slower than the Archimedes version Zarch. Plus it is a very good game and very nostalgic to lots of people. (It's sequel, Conqueror was also very slow.

[Reynolds]

Conqueror is a really good game but can be enjoyed with adequate fps rate only...
Looking forward for these great efforts to make old but gold games playable on today's hw.

respect.

[jotd]

Check the zone and please test Killing Cloud relocated to fastmem (not a piece of cake to create!)

Don't hope too much, when removing the cloud the framerate isn't so great even with a fast winuae.

Tried on real hardware and the fastmem version didn't appear much faster than the original... Damn...

can a moderator rename the thread from "Fast Red Zone" to "Fast Red Zone and other fastmem-relocated projects" or smth like that?

[alexh]

Thanks for that. I wonder if you can use WinUAE debugger to work out if a game is RAM bandwidth limited or CPU limited before starting?

Is there a chance this game has frame rate limiting? I've seen some games limit the frame rate to increase the average frame rate

[jotd]

Originally Posted by alexh

Thanks for that. I wonder if you can use WinUAE debugger to work out if a game is RAM bandwidth limited or CPU limited before starting?

Sort of, I'm using winUAE to see if the game is smooth with WinUAE but crawls with real machine. If that's the case, relocating the game in fastmem does the trick, always

Is there a chance this game has frame rate limiting? I've seen some games limit the frame rate to increase the average frame rate

It doesn't seem to be the case on KC, removing cloud and going under it makes game crawl (when you see a lot of houses and all) even on my new PC with WinUAE at "fastest" setting. But when there aren't so many objects to draw, game is rather smooth, even on a real amiga. So not sure about a strict framerate limiting.

[jotd]

I've initiated a spreadsheet where I have put the games that could or were or won't processed for fastmem relocation.

Feel free to comment here or in the file. If you want to test on real hardware / emulator and report your experience, that interests me too.

[Angus]

Wow, exciting stuff, Jean-François.

Midwinter and CyberCon III are excellent games that I think would be improved a lot. Conqueror and Virus are also great, although somebody released a fast version of Virus unofficially, I believe.

Exciting times, sir. ;-)

P.S. Perhaps not possible to fix, but Shuttle has graphic/text glitches if the caches are used.

[jotd]

Shuttle has a new whdload patch already, which fixes the graphics/text glitches and uses fast memory. Runs great on my 060 (crawled before).

It doesn't seem to run on all memory configurations / locks up / triggers in-game safety checks, there's a subtle bug in the custom memory allocator of the game. So subtle I haven't figured it out ATM

[tolkien]

Originally Posted by jotd

I've initiated a spreadsheet where I have put the games that could or were or won't processed for fastmem relocation.

Feel free to comment here or in the file. If you want to test on real hardware / emulator and report your experience, that interests me too.

I hope to fix my 060 tomorrow (lets pray) and would like to test Hunter when done!

[Angus]

Originally Posted by jotd

Shuttle has a new whdload patch already, which fixes the graphics/text glitches and uses fast memory. Runs great on my 060 (crawled before).

It doesn't seem to run on all memory configurations / locks up / triggers in-game safety checks, there's a subtle bug in the custom memory allocator of the game. So subtle I haven't figured it out ATM

Version 1.0 (17.05.2022) ? Yes, that's the one I meant, I think unless there's another. It's faster but not too much, and I ran into glitches when I tried using the caches.