Creating a new 020 accel board for A600 (eventually to A500 too) - Page 6

kolla · 10 June 2008, 05:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zetr0

@Kolla

hello there, a most interesting link, i have been fishing around for one, actually a couple of these, how much is that via that link ? (in GBP / Euro)

200 NOK is about 20 GBP.

As for SCSI - yes, I know it is better in terms of performce, but I really dont think it is worth it any more - SCSI devices are rare and expencive. Especially when building new hardware, I dont see the point in dragging along SCSI, makes more sense to go for SATA then.

I _much_ rather have memory card slot than SCSI - especially in A600

Btw. I want to replace old noisy SCSI drives with memory cards, and I found this nice company that builds all kinds of adapters, however they do not have SCSI-CF/SD. I am trying to hint that there might be a market for something like this...

http://www.addonics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=57

Check out their main site as well, lots of funny adapters

Hungry Horace · 12 June 2008, 22:28

i have a new question!!

would it be possible to run this expansion with the 020 disabled, but the fast ram still enabled? maybe with a small switch, or a jumper or something?

i have my reasons for wanting to run some tests with 68000 only

Merlin · 12 June 2008, 22:40

@ Zetr0 and rkauer

I have a question; If I carry out the A600 2Mb "piggyback" chip memory hack, will the height of the stacked memory chips potentially interfere with the footprint of the device you guys are cooking up?

I already have an A600 with an A601 fitted, however, I wanted to ask this on behalf of those who may wish to hack their Miggy 600s to 2Mb and can't get their hands on an A601 or A602. I may also want to mod my spare A600 with the chip hack someday and if the accelerator is going to interfere with it, I may just leave it alone.

rkauer · 12 June 2008, 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merlin

@ Zetr0 and rkauer

I have a question; If I carry out the A600 2Mb "piggyback" chip memory hack, will the height of the stacked memory chips potentially interfere with the footprint of the device you guys are cooking up?

I already have an A600 with an A601 fitted, however, I wanted to ask this on behalf of those who may wish to hack their Miggy 600s to 2Mb and can't get their hands on an A601 or A602. I may also want to mod my spare A600 with the chip hack someday and if the accelerator is going to interfere with it, I may just leave it alone.

Good point!

But since the memory bank's location are far from the CPU, expect to don't bother.

The accelerator board will be large ('cause we want to use dual layer to reduce costs) and make to fit with the original HD cradle in place . This is necessary to keep the keyboard in place, since the other ancient accelerators demands to remove it (and causing keyboard problems

). I don't trust on those small plastic clips to held the keyboard in place, myself.

Merlin · 12 June 2008, 23:14

OK thanks rkauer,

I thought with all of the other hackery (nice word BTW Zetr0) going on with the A600, it was worth asking the question. Small is beautiful as accelerators go, as long as heat isn't a major problem.

I seem to recall that one of the Apollo or Viper 630 type accelerators used screw holes which aligned with holes in the motherboard and case, to hold it down and prevent chip 'creep' due to heat expansion and contraction. Aside from being busy on the electronics side of things, I am glad you are also considering the mountings for the device. I just wish I could help more....

Cheers

Merlin

rkauer · 07 July 2008, 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merlin

OK thanks rkauer,

--snip--

I seem to recall that one of the Apollo or Viper 630 type accelerators used screw holes which aligned with holes in the motherboard and case, to hold it down and prevent chip 'creep' due to heat expansion and contraction. Aside from being busy on the electronics side of things, I am glad you are also considering the mountings for the device. I just wish I could help more....

Jens ACA630 is the board. Too expensive for me, sorry. Wifie kills the designer...

But I love his idea of screwing the board with two screws and spacers. Like it so much I simply will steal it!

Just bumping the thread up. Minor improvements on design, waiting for pieces to arrive.

Royal Fail is not my friend.

A question for those experts guys (me included

): using a SIMM bank (or chips), can I use the RAS/CAS lines from the main board to feed it? Me start to think again (do you smell it?)...

Dimlow · 10 July 2008, 03:03

Mmm, Just noticed this thread, looks interesting, maybe i will have to get an A600 so i can get some more use out of my solder station!

Very interested in the way that accelerators work at the moment. Will soon need something else to keep my brain from fading.

rkauer · 10 July 2008, 05:55

Thinking again, I resolve the cheapest board will use SIMM banks too. Remember "the cheaper, the better"?

So the humblest board will accept one or two SIMM banks (8Mb maximum), using less parts (a pair of trough-hole SIMM slots). Those 4Mb 72-pin SIMM are insulting cheap, nowadays.

rkauer · 16 July 2008, 22:56

Finally the bits'n'bobs Zetr0 sent me arrived on my place!

The looong delay was caused by the Brazilian mail on strike!

So now, no more "excuses" to start the design (what I already doing) in "da real thing".

@Z man: why that Motorola cache chip?

Zetr0 · 17 July 2008, 01:43

I thought you would like it, you know as a talking piece

or as a 32K IDE buffer

rkauer · 19 July 2008, 21:43

Another update in the thread, sorry for the delay...

A little problem arose: the position the 68k CPU on the 600's board stops the original HD cradle fits...

Another (little) one: the accelerator can use SRAM (sync RAM) or SIMM/SDRAM (size is another problem ,here).

Pondering: SRAM is fast, frees the board for a RAM controller (no need for CAS/RAS/clocks/"Only Amiga" singing on backgrounds...), but it is way more expensive.

SIMM/SDRAM is a lot cheaper, but needs controller, adjustable clock rates and voltage regulators (SDRAM is 3.3V) and I don't want another board like an Apollo who doesn't accept several SIMM types(picky).

So I need some feedback in here.

Feel free to discuss

Merlin · 19 July 2008, 22:05

Hmm.... how about building the board to accept 72-pin laptop memory, to save space? It may need a voltage regulator but it certainly saves space.

SRAM is more likely to be harder to get hold of as well.

Just my two pennies worth

rkauer · 19 July 2008, 22:43

Notebook RAM is harder to buy/find and expensive. Maybe notebook SDRAM are not that scarce... Desktop banks are better on this matter. And now they costing near to nothing.

SRAM is not rare, neither hard to buy. Just expensive. But it gives a lot of speed to any kind of CPU board 'cause the "zero wait state". No clock, no RAS/CAS, only power supply, data and address lines. Did I mention speed?

mfilos · 20 July 2008, 01:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkauer

A little problem arose: the position the 68k CPU on the 600's board stops the original HD cradle fits...

My friend, have you thought the possibility of putting the HD above the accelerator could work? AFAIK there's space!
Since I have an M-Tec 630 in my A600 I thought of giving ya a hint. Check BBoAH here.
I think that the 4 holes are meant for the HD that can be attached above the CPU with some sort of a customed cradle... dunno

If you check mine (here) you'll see that the HD is kinda bigger than the holes on the accelerator. Dunno if you like the idea, but I find it kinda easy to make the exact holes in your PCB for mounting the HD above. (Just like the EFIKA)
Anyway... that was an idea only

Keep up the good work and keep us posted!

rkauer · 21 July 2008, 04:01

Better simply re-house the HD (or CF) on the left side of the accelerator, then.

I'll design the board a bit more to the right to make room for the HD.

Do you guys think 7.90 USD for each 512Kx8 70ns SRAM chip (8 needed) is a decent price?

[EDIT]: the only type I found is 628512LLFP-70: half Mb, 55 and 70ns types, regular jedec format, 5V tolerant (some are 3.3V), reversed versions (good for saving space, components on both sides of the board).

NovaCoder · 21 July 2008, 06:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkauer

Better simply re-house the HD (or CF) on the left side of the accelerator, then.

I'll design the board a bit more to the right to make room for the HD.

Do you guys think 7.90 USD for each 512Kx8 70ns SRAM chip (8 needed) is a decent price?

I think that's cheap at half the price...it's got to be SRAM

A CF mount on the accelerator also sounds like a good idea to me

cane · 21 July 2008, 16:02

I'm not concerned about hd cradle because I'm using CF and it can be easily fitted somewhere else.
By using this 8 sram chips you stated rkauer it'd be 4 Mb of ram if I got it right?

rkauer · 21 July 2008, 19:28

Right. More than 4Mb with no RAM controller and/or EC020 CPU will hit the PCMCIA reserved address space, making the port useless.

Another design with a full 020/030 can be done later, using up to 2Gb RAM (not sure where install the 128Mb SIMMs inside a small A600...).

[EDIT]

I just received a quote from IC2IC: 5USD for each memory chip, at least 10 units minimum order. So 40 USD for 4Mb RAM. Too expensive...

Zetr0: I think I'll "borrow" that memory controller showed on your hack thread...

Dimlow · 01 August 2008, 10:16

Has this thread died ?

Zetr0 · 01 August 2008, 11:43

I hope not,

rkauer and I have been talking in PM a fair bit

not only about RAM wait states and schematics, but also (perhaps more importantly) swapping some yummy cooking recipes

21 July 2008, 04:01	#115
rkauer I hate potatos and shirts Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sao Leopoldo / Brazil Age: 58 Posts: 3,482	Better simply re-house the HD (or CF) on the left side of the accelerator, then. I'll design the board a bit more to the right to make room for the HD. Do you guys think 7.90 USD for each 512Kx8 70ns SRAM chip (8 needed) is a decent price? [EDIT]: the only type I found is 628512LLFP-70: half Mb, 55 and 70ns types, regular jedec format, 5V tolerant (some are 3.3V), reversed versions (good for saving space, components on both sides of the board). Last edited by rkauer; 21 July 2008 at 04:58. Reason: info added

21 July 2008, 19:28	#118
rkauer I hate potatos and shirts Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sao Leopoldo / Brazil Age: 58 Posts: 3,482	Right. More than 4Mb with no RAM controller and/or EC020 CPU will hit the PCMCIA reserved address space, making the port useless. Another design with a full 020/030 can be done later, using up to 2Gb RAM (not sure where install the 128Mb SIMMs inside a small A600...). [EDIT] I just received a quote from IC2IC: 5USD for each memory chip, at least 10 units minimum order. So 40 USD for 4Mb RAM. Too expensive... Zetr0: I think I'll "borrow" that memory controller showed on your hack thread... Last edited by rkauer; 21 July 2008 at 20:27. Reason: adding info

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12 June 2008, 22:28	#102
Hungry Horace Wipe-Out Enthusiast Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: . Age: 43 Posts: 2,545	i have a new question!! would it be possible to run this expansion with the 020 disabled, but the fast ram still enabled? maybe with a small switch, or a jumper or something? i have my reasons for wanting to run some tests with 68000 only

12 June 2008, 22:40	#103
Merlin AmiBay MegaMod Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Manchester, UK Age: 62 Posts: 1,163	@ Zetr0 and rkauer I have a question; If I carry out the A600 2Mb "piggyback" chip memory hack, will the height of the stacked memory chips potentially interfere with the footprint of the device you guys are cooking up? I already have an A600 with an A601 fitted, however, I wanted to ask this on behalf of those who may wish to hack their Miggy 600s to 2Mb and can't get their hands on an A601 or A602. I may also want to mod my spare A600 with the chip hack someday and if the accelerator is going to interfere with it, I may just leave it alone.

12 June 2008, 23:14	#105
Merlin AmiBay MegaMod Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Manchester, UK Age: 62 Posts: 1,163	OK thanks rkauer, I thought with all of the other hackery (nice word BTW Zetr0) going on with the A600, it was worth asking the question. Small is beautiful as accelerators go, as long as heat isn't a major problem. I seem to recall that one of the Apollo or Viper 630 type accelerators used screw holes which aligned with holes in the motherboard and case, to hold it down and prevent chip 'creep' due to heat expansion and contraction. Aside from being busy on the electronics side of things, I am glad you are also considering the mountings for the device. I just wish I could help more.... Cheers Merlin

10 July 2008, 03:03	#107
Dimlow Likes to be thought of as Join Date: May 2008 Location: Kent,UK Age: 55 Posts: 529	Mmm, Just noticed this thread, looks interesting, maybe i will have to get an A600 so i can get some more use out of my solder station! Very interested in the way that accelerators work at the moment. Will soon need something else to keep my brain from fading.

10 July 2008, 05:55	#108
rkauer I hate potatos and shirts Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sao Leopoldo / Brazil Age: 58 Posts: 3,482	Thinking again, I resolve the cheapest board will use SIMM banks too. Remember "the cheaper, the better"? So the humblest board will accept one or two SIMM banks (8Mb maximum), using less parts (a pair of trough-hole SIMM slots). Those 4Mb 72-pin SIMM are insulting cheap, nowadays.

16 July 2008, 22:56	#109
rkauer I hate potatos and shirts Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sao Leopoldo / Brazil Age: 58 Posts: 3,482	Finally the bits'n'bobs Zetr0 sent me arrived on my place! The looong delay was caused by the Brazilian mail on strike! So now, no more "excuses" to start the design (what I already doing) in "da real thing". @Z man: why that Motorola cache chip?

17 July 2008, 01:43	#110
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	I thought you would like it, you know as a talking piece or as a 32K IDE buffer

19 July 2008, 21:43	#111
rkauer I hate potatos and shirts Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sao Leopoldo / Brazil Age: 58 Posts: 3,482	Another update in the thread, sorry for the delay... A little problem arose: the position the 68k CPU on the 600's board stops the original HD cradle fits... Another (little) one: the accelerator can use SRAM (sync RAM) or SIMM/SDRAM (size is another problem ,here). Pondering: SRAM is fast, frees the board for a RAM controller (no need for CAS/RAS/clocks/"Only Amiga" singing on backgrounds...), but it is way more expensive. SIMM/SDRAM is a lot cheaper, but needs controller, adjustable clock rates and voltage regulators (SDRAM is 3.3V) and I don't want another board like an Apollo who doesn't accept several SIMM types(picky). So I need some feedback in here. Feel free to discuss

19 July 2008, 22:05	#112
Merlin AmiBay MegaMod Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Manchester, UK Age: 62 Posts: 1,163	Hmm.... how about building the board to accept 72-pin laptop memory, to save space? It may need a voltage regulator but it certainly saves space. SRAM is more likely to be harder to get hold of as well. Just my two pennies worth

19 July 2008, 22:43	#113
rkauer I hate potatos and shirts Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sao Leopoldo / Brazil Age: 58 Posts: 3,482	Notebook RAM is harder to buy/find and expensive. Maybe notebook SDRAM are not that scarce... Desktop banks are better on this matter. And now they costing near to nothing. SRAM is not rare, neither hard to buy. Just expensive. But it gives a lot of speed to any kind of CPU board 'cause the "zero wait state". No clock, no RAS/CAS, only power supply, data and address lines. Did I mention speed?

21 July 2008, 16:02	#117
cane Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: .hr Age: 45 Posts: 540	I'm not concerned about hd cradle because I'm using CF and it can be easily fitted somewhere else. By using this 8 sram chips you stated rkauer it'd be 4 Mb of ram if I got it right?

01 August 2008, 10:16	#119
Dimlow Likes to be thought of as Join Date: May 2008 Location: Kent,UK Age: 55 Posts: 529	Has this thread died ?

01 August 2008, 11:43	#120
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	I hope not, rkauer and I have been talking in PM a fair bit not only about RAM wait states and schematics, but also (perhaps more importantly) swapping some yummy cooking recipes

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