Which game you think mainly represents the Amiga?

[sokolovic]

Originally Posted by Bren McGuire

so were other platforms like the ST do you think this game would have happened had they had an Atari ST? I don't think so buddy and this does not take credit off the creators but without the right tools this probably would not have happened and had stayed as an idea

i think you understate the importance of what the particular platform offered to creative minds

Same could be said for Another World which was made because of the Amiga easy rotoscoping habilities.
It is strange that nobody quote this game btw.

[Megalomaniac]

Originally Posted by Bren McGuire

so were other platforms like the ST do you think this game would have happened had they had an Atari ST? I don't think so buddy and this does not take credit off the creators but without the right tools this probably would not have happened and had stayed as an idea

i think you understate the importance of what the particular platform offered to creative minds

By 1990 Deluxe Paint III on the Amiga was probably far superior to any ST art package. However, what we can't know is - had the Amiga not existed, would EA have further developed ST Deluxe Paint to be the best? Would the STe (which was closer to the Amiga's audiovisual capabilities, though still only 16 colours per scanline) have been launched sooner, or been successful more quickly, to allow for an enhanced DPaint for Lemmings to be created on that? Or a version for PCs, or perhaps the Archimedes would have done better? Maybe it would have been a version of Spectrum (the ST's main art package I think, confusingly named if you're British), or something for the Archie or PC, that was used? Still, Amiga hardware allowed for the audio feel which added so much character to the game, even if other mouse-based 16-bit systems could do the gameplay and graphics just as well. Also, there was something about the Amiga ecosystem that encouraged innovation and creativity, far more than contemporary PCs or STs, let alone consoles.

[saimon69]

Originally Posted by Megalomaniac

Maybe it would have been a version of Spectrum (the ST's main art package I think, confusingly named if you're British),

Spectrum 512 was NOT the main Art package for ST, the software that was taking the dpaint niche on the ST was Degas Elite - with an interface in my opinion less good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IjKzbrIRa

[sokolovic]

Originally Posted by Megalomaniac

By 1990 Deluxe Paint III on the Amiga was probably far superior to any ST art package. However, what we can't know is - had the Amiga not existed, would EA have further developed ST Deluxe Paint to be the best? Would the STe (which was closer to the Amiga's audiovisual capabilities, though still only 16 colours per scanline) have been launched sooner, or been successful more quickly, to allow for an enhanced DPaint for Lemmings to be created on that? Or a version for PCs, or perhaps the Archimedes would have done better? Maybe it would have been a version of Spectrum (the ST's main art package I think, confusingly named if you're British), or something for the Archie or PC, that was used? Still, Amiga hardware allowed for the audio feel which added so much character to the game, even if other mouse-based 16-bit systems could do the gameplay and graphics just as well. Also, there was something about the Amiga ecosystem that encouraged innovation and creativity, far more than contemporary PCs or STs, let alone consoles.

Ahahah.
We're keep diving in the what if World. This is an infinite loop.

[kremiso]

Originally Posted by sokolovic

Same could be said for Another World which was made because of the Amiga easy rotoscoping habilities.
It is strange that nobody quote this game btw.

a couple did
prob due to the single choice and 'most representative' thing combined

maybe with more entries...

not the same thing, but on LemonAmiga Another World is favourited by 143 members

Shadow of the Beast 73 and Lemmings 169

[gimbal]

I have to rethink my choices because Another World really might fit best with my ideas. It has both the melancholic and horrific style that I associate with the Amiga... and also that maturity factor. Bonus points that it isn't just a run to the end, there are also themes of finding friends in hostile places in there.

It is just that the game has been ported to so many systems and is pretty awesome on most of them, I didn't consider it as "an Amiga game" until now

[dreadnought]

Originally Posted by sokolovic

Same could be said for Another World which was made because of the Amiga easy rotoscoping habilities.
It is strange that nobody quote this game btw.

Originally Posted by dreadnought

Only one pick is super tough, in the end it'd have to be an epic battle between It Came From The Desert (though DotC made me buy Amiga) and Another World, with the 1st place going to the latter, mainly because of its Amiga DNA. This game has it all: is unique, groundbreaking, stunning, and clever.

Having said that, I'd be also wary of saying that "it couldn't be done without Amiga" because it's a rabbit hole. Even though in the case of AW we have the dev himself saying it was easier to do than on ST. But overall you will never know what could be really done on which system, plus the less powerful platforms actually often boosted creativity, ZX Spectrum being the best example.

Most of these criteria are not set in stone, though I definitely would say that having Amiga as lead platform is a big bonus point. Being ported elsewhere shouldn't be a diminishing factor though because then you'd be left with not much (and not only re Amiga).

But even so it could be still subjective: eg I mostly think of games like Monkey Island or Syndicate as "Amiga games" even though they were somewhat better and/or made on PC.

[TCD]

Originally Posted by dreadnought

Even though in the case of AW we have the dev himself saying it was easier to do than on ST.

But also saying that it was developed on both machines at the same time. I would say AW is a prime example of being developed in parallel on multiple machines.

[Locutus]

AW is a prime example of a game that was architected from the get go for portability between different platforms.

The whole game runs in a custom runtime, a fun writeup of which can be found here: https://fabiensanglard.net/another_w...ons/index.html

[TCD]

Originally Posted by Locutus

The whole game runs in a custom runtime, a fun writeup of which can be found here: https://fabiensanglard.net/another_w...ons/index.html

Very interesting read. I've also added it to the HOL entry. Thanks for posting the link

[sokolovic]

Originally Posted by TCD

Very interesting read. I've also added it to the HOL entry. Thanks for posting the link

Again Hol states this this game is not an Amiga original but "parallel development" but this very site states :

The original Amiga version was reportedly 6,000 lines of assembly

Another World on Amiga is not, properly speaking, a port. Since the A500 was the development machine, it is the original version built from 1989 to 1991 by then 21 years old Eric Chahi working alone in his bedroom.

Two reasons made the Amiga the perfect development machine. First, the GenLock allowed to super-impose a video camera output onto the computer own outputs which enabled rotoscoping. Second, and most importantly, the Amiga Agnus immensely facilitated polygons rendering

If a game like Another World isn't an Amiga original, then very few Amiga games are.

[TCD]

From the third part of the article: "Another World on Atari ST was entirely written by Eric Chahi in parallel with the Amiga version."
https://fabiensanglard.net/another_w...iST/index.html

[kremiso]

in this later video, Eric Chahi talks also of the Amiga development side (after minute 10)

[ Show youtube player ]

[dreadnought]

Originally Posted by TCD

But also saying that it was developed on both machines at the same time. I would say AW is a prime example of being developed in parallel on multiple machines.

I researched it some time ago on occasion of another similar discussion and found sources with Eric was saying that he started on ST then moved to Amiga mostly because of superior BASIC. The rotoscoping tools were another major factor. And in every of these sources he talks about Amiga first and foremost.

Not sure I can go through digging up these links again but for me Another World is 100% Amiga original game.

[TCD]

It was intended to be released on both machines at the same time. Main work clearly happened on the Amiga, but it was done in a way that it would also work on the ST. I agree that the Amiga is clearly the leading platform for development, but it was developed for both machines at the same time.

[sokolovic]

Originally Posted by TCD

It was intended to be released on both machines at the same time. Main work clearly happened on the Amiga, but it was done in a way that it would also work on the ST. I agree that the Amiga is clearly the leading platform for development, but it was developed for both machines at the same time.

Being the leading platform and the development platform seems enough to me toconsiders it as an Amiga original. The links above are very clear about Chahi having to trick the original Amiga Engine to make it works on the ST because no blitter etc.
And even Chahi is very clear about stating that the original version is the Amiga one.

[dreadnought]

Originally Posted by TCD

It was intended to be released on both machines at the same time. Main work clearly happened on the Amiga, but it was done in a way that it would also work on the ST. I agree that the Amiga is clearly the leading platform for development, but it was developed for both machines at the same time.

Are there some primary sources for the "parallel development" claim (ie either Eric or someone very close to him/development saying so)? The fact that it was ported to ST is not a proof but an assumption.

I'm genuinely interested. I went through all the sources the article linked above mentions, and there are no direct references.

Also, where in HoL entry are the source links?

[dreadnought]

From Eric's "official" site:

ANOTHER WORLD
Realisation
Equipment
An Amiga 500 with 1 MB ram + 20Mb hard drive
A camcorder, a genlock and a video recorder to create the animations according to the rotoscoping technique.
A tape recorder to record sound effects.

...and:

Versions

Initially edited for the first time in November 1991 on Amiga
[...]
The AMIGA version :
The first version

Then you have several interviews where he mostly refers to Amiga, such as this Eurogamer one, where phrase "Amiga original" is mentioned multiple times.

I mean, since the game was released for both ST and Amiga at the same time there is no doubt that he has also worked on the ST version at the time, but I think calling it a "parallel development" might a be bit off in this case - at least based on the present records.

[sokolovic]

Originally Posted by dreadnought

From Eric's "official" site:



...and:


Then you have several interviews where he mostly refers to Amiga, such as this Eurogamer one, where phrase "Amiga original" is mentioned multiple times.

Yes. He had several occasion on this interview to claim that the Amiga version wasn't the original one but a "parallel development."

[kremiso]

a lot of interviews, strange nobody asked the specific question to Chahi

prob he was programming on Amiga, and then tranferring the code on ST, day by day