AmigaOS 3.2 released!

[Thomas Richter]

That's actually the territory of DiskSafe, which will install a reset handler to ensure that the FFS (or any other file system) has written out its cache before the reset reaches the system.

[Thomas Richter]

Originally Posted by Ras Voja

In my eyes, you are still far behind.

All the components you find in 3.2 are reworked, updated and bugfixed versions of the components you had in 3.9 already. Just at a newer version. So that's hardly "behind".


3.9 was more a distribution than an operating system as it contained many third party tools, tools you can still find today - again in later and newer versions - in Aminet. For example, BenchTrash, IOTools, ViNCEd ad other tools of mine you find right there, ready for you to install.



I really believe that this is the better approach. Leave users a choice what to pick rather than overload the Os with features. The problem with the latter is that with each feature comes responsibility, and with responsibily comes the need for developers, and we're a bit short of them.


Thus, rather leave the development of components that are not absolutely necessary to external developers, just in order not to load too much work on the Os team itself.

Originally Posted by Ras Voja

Its not new XE I am asking for, its new well integrated baseline, saving you coding time by using best reliable and updated 3rd party components which are already de facto standard. Like Picasso RTG we get in MOS, AOS4 and maybe even AROS distros by now.

The "baseline" you have there already, in the Os. What you want to use as extensions is really up to you. For some components, the right leaves at third parties (mine, to name one), some components have even been licensed from third parties (the CPU libraries and the mmulib, LoadModule), and some of them are even owned by completely separate entities (P96) such that their integration is really outside the hands of the Os team. Quite some legalease is attached to integrating such components, and it is not always easy to do that for reasons that are beyond technology and code.

Originally Posted by Ras Voja

Also high end support out of box, Vampire, TF, Polish 060 card, other new Amiga projects is a MUST.

AmigaOs supports all hardware that plays by the rules of AmigaOs right out of the box. I can take a SCSI hostadapter from vendor A and a memory expansion from vendor B, together with a turbo board from vendor C, all provided A, B and C play "autoconf". That is a "must" to be a component.


Thus, the ease of integration of components does not lie in the hands of the Os team. It iies in the hands of hardware vendors to follow documented and open development guidelines. If these hardware vendors are unable or unwilling to play by these rules, please do not put the responsibility to interface to such components on the shoulders of the already small Os team.


There are still vendors out there that "play by the rules", both professional ones (iComp) and hobbyists (Matze). It is up to the user to buy or build components that "work", and avoid components that are kludgy.


The idea that the Os team has to "clean up" behind vendors does not scale. There are by far not enough people to do the homework and take down the trash of hardware vendors.

Originally Posted by Ras Voja

I will buy OS 3.3 and would prefer to support coders WORKING TOWARDS THIS GOAL via KS, parteon, PP direct aid MORE THEN VIA Hyperion, for reasons well known including your payement and motivation.

Hyperion supports authors by providing access to Os sources, there is no monetary compensation. Same goes for third party components such as P96. The problem is not the lack of motivation or lack of money - at least on my side. It is just a lot of work, which means as much work as possible needs to be outsourced to other parties. Vendors doing their homework, independent authors (such as me) providing their software in Aminet.

Originally Posted by Ras Voja

Why cant we fairly forget OS4 or recknon its dead end, and Move to 5.0 no Elate?

While I'm not a fan of 4.x, please do not disregard the amount of work that went into it, and from which the Os developers could also recycle quite a bit of source code.


It is probably a dead platform, but so is 68K, but the later has a larger user community.

[AMIGASYSTEM]

Originally Posted by mfilos

@Daedalus
Thanks a lot man. Will definitely give some read


I guess that only me gets annoyed from PFS3's write delay (that FFS and SFS don't have).
I'm a nub at filesystems but always liked that you can edit a file and reboot immediately on FFS/SFS while you have to wait some secs on PFS3 or your changes are lost :/

You are not the only one who is annoyed, some people do not even notice the problem, I use SFS specifically, PFS in some cases you have to wait even more than 3 seconds, especially if you use it for AROS 68k.

[boemann]

So it seems like some people are thinking that 3.3 is around the corner. However our focus right now is still very much 3.2 and making a 3.2.2 update for it.

Sure we have made experiments that will likely go into a future 3.3 but make no mistake: 3.2 will remain the main version for years to come.

After 3.2.2 is out we will likely take a look at the experiments, look at our wish list, and start developing. Going by past experience 3.3 can then be ready 2-3 years after that.

While waiting for 3.3 to come together we will possibly even take time out to make a 3.2.3 update if the need arises.

[mfilos]

This is what I had in mind as well.
3.2 showed what is capable of, and the upgrades like 3.2.1, and soon to be (hopefully) 3.2.2 is on the right track of bugfixes and some nice to have extras on the way to 3.2.3 etc.
What a great time to be here tbh... OS3.2.x brought me back after 5 years of absence. Feels so good getting back on track

[CCRider]

Originally Posted by mfilos

(...)
What a great time to be here tbh... OS3.2.x brought me back after 5 years of absence. Feels so good getting back on track

I came back after almost 20 years, really impressed with the vision and focus of the development path of 3.1.4 and 3.2.x.

And yet, there are people here willing to repeat the 3.5 and 3.9 trainwrecks...

[boemann]

Originally Posted by CCRider

I came back after almost 20 years, really impressed with the vision and focus of the development path of 3.1.4 and 3.2.x.

And yet, there are people here willing to repeat the 3.5 and 3.9 trainwrecks...

Originally Posted by mfilos

This is what I had in mind as well.
3.2 showed what is capable of, and the upgrades like 3.2.1, and soon to be (hopefully) 3.2.2 is on the right track of bugfixes and some nice to have extras on the way to 3.2.3 etc.
What a great time to be here tbh... OS3.2.x brought me back after 5 years of absence. Feels so good getting back on track

Heartwarming to hear you appreciate it. And 3.3 will be more of the same: Gentle cleanup of old components combined with select new features. No bundling of things that divide the userbase. Simply focusing on what AmigaOS is and continue to do it better.

[Daedalus]

Originally Posted by CCRider

And yet, there are people here willing to repeat the 3.5 and 3.9 trainwrecks...

I think a few people give 3.5, and particularly 3.9 a worse reputation than they deserve. Sure, 3.9 came bundled with a lot of extra stuff that made the requirements a bit heavier, but nobody had to actually use the extra stuff. And there were some very useful tools included too as well as huge improvements to the core of the OS and to Workbench, most of which have finally (and thankfully) made their way into 3.2. Things like the vastly improved Workbench (ARexx port, GlowIcons, better icon sorting methods, better text listings in drawer windows, asynchronous operations, better menu shortcuts, improved icon selection behaviour, volume full gauges, improved colour mapping, integrated NewIcon and MagicWB support...), large hard drive support, CD support, superfloppy support, RAWBInfo, DefIcons, ReAction, file finder, Mounter, GUI-driven text editor, much improved datatypes and more all either come from OS 3.9 or are reimplementations of a similar feature from 3.9.

People like to laugh at 3.9 because it came with a web browser and movie player, but seem to forget that 3.2 wouldn't be what it is today without building on the base established by 3.9.

[boemann]

Originally Posted by Daedalus

I think a few people give 3.5, and particularly 3.9 a worse reputation than they deserve. Sure, 3.9 came bundled with a lot of extra stuff that made the requirements a bit heavier, but nobody had to actually use the extra stuff. And there were some very useful tools included too as well as huge improvements to the core of the OS and to Workbench, most of which have finally (and thankfully) made their way into 3.2. Things like the vastly improved Workbench (ARexx port, GlowIcons, better icon sorting methods, better text listings in drawer windows, asynchronous operations, better menu shortcuts, improved icon selection behaviour, volume full gauges, improved colour mapping, integrated NewIcon and MagicWB support...), large hard drive support, CD support, superfloppy support, RAWBInfo, DefIcons, ReAction, file finder, Mounter, GUI-driven text editor, much improved datatypes and more all either come from OS 3.9 or are reimplementations of a similar feature from 3.9.

People like to laugh at 3.9 because it came with a web browser and movie player, but seem to forget that 3.2 wouldn't be what it is today without building on the base established by 3.9.

You are right offcourse that 3.9 provided the inspiration for many things in 3.2. The trainwreck in my view refers to the fact that it feels like a lot of shareware rammed together and then called 3.9. It is hard to explain it completely but it feels foreign.

[Daedalus]

Originally Posted by Ras Voja

Reputation? I still keep my OS 3.5 BB2 as baseline, just because its hard to legally get OS 3.9 and is boxed.

Yes, reputation. It's an opinion that's commonly heard and often repeated even by people who haven't used either 3.5 or 3.9.

How do you know most of people did not use it? Did you any questionaire on it? Try here poll.

Everyone can see that you love a good poll, but you've misunderstood what I wrote.

Also 3.9 web browser, movie player, improved CDDA etc. were great

And all of which are much less relevant these days than they were even back then. The browser was passable but there were better options. Likewise for the CDDA player, and the movie player was little more than a toy. Certainly not key requirements for a new version of the OS, which has different aims for a different community than 3.9 back then.

[CCRider]

Originally Posted by boemann

You are right offcourse that 3.9 provided the inspiration for many things in 3.2. The trainwreck in my view refers to the fact that it feels like a lot of shareware rammed together and then called 3.9. It is hard to explain it completely but it feels foreign.

Exactly my thoughts.

And I worked on both 3.5 and 3.9, providing translation to Brazilian Portuguese. So I was well aware of their development phase, having access to betas, prereleases and so on.

On the other hand, 3.2.x is exactly what I think it should be: a solid platform to expand upon.

I tried 3.1 on my return to the Amiga world, but it was such a hassle of minimal details to care for installing larger media and stuff. Then I decided to give 3.2 a chance, and never looked back.

[boemann]

Okay Ras

You have made it clear you prefer a lot of things bundled. Here is the reason why this will not happen:

1) Anyone can collect the extras they want and install it. It is serious waste of our time to do so. Time better spend on improving the OS in ways no one else can.

2) We will not greenlight a bunch of applications and hacks if we cannot support them directly. Or even be sure they don't misbehave.

3) Not everyone like the same applications and hacks. A lot of people appreciate that we don't try and stuff specific things down their throat. Everyone is free to add their own extras

4) There is a thriving selection of such distributions as you look for. There is no void for us to fill.

Now you may disagree and we get that, but this is where it ends. Don't even reply to this. Further attempt along this line will be seen as trolling

[samo79]

I realize that they want to avoid any usual issues with the licenses, a typical mess of our Amiga ecosystem, however as a simple user i believe nowadays any Amiga system, even the old os3 should have atleast a minimum basic set... a tcp stack, a licensed version of picasso96, and a built in xad libraries to extract files

[Daedalus]

Originally Posted by Ras Voja

Mind that community did a lot of fixes on top called BB3 and BB4
to FURTHER IMPROVE OS FUNCTIONALITY AND BUNDLED APPS TO END USER JOY incl. e.g. updating Browser.

And while they're improved, BB3 and 4 often caused issues because they applied too much unofficial stuff and/or unnecessary stuff with too little testing and too little consideration for different setups. Which is why I don't use them. They were too much like a ClassicWB pack or similar for my liking.

Yes, peoples opinion matters and should steer development equaly as coders ideas.

It was sarcasm. Polls like the multitude you're posting are pointless and very unlikely to achieve anything other than filling up the various forums with what could almost be considered spam.

Please make corrected statement, looked like you are pro OS 3.1 level of spartanism which is "fit to 880K" approach (why not to ZX83 100K Microdrive?)

No, going back to a bare 3.1 install for me is frustrating due to its minimal and clunky nature. And there are a couple of things from 3.9 that I still feel are lacking in 3.2 - specifically THE or a similar utility for customising the menus to save the user manually editing the menu script, and AmiDock or similar.

Today its different, we have CPU, HDD and RAM but no OS bundled apps. Its tragic on Amigas with no net acccess

Not everyone does have the CPU and RAM needed, and not everyone wants net access on their Amigas. The only current TCP stack is excellent, but would increase the cost of the OS significantly. And the many people who don't care about internet access (the machine I have 3.2 on doesn't have it, for example), shouldn't be forced to pay for something they don't want just because you think it should be. And, of course, browsers are so utterly unsuited to modern browsing that people who aren't already using the internet on other Amigas would only be disappointed.

Today it is different, true, but as I pointed out earlier, it's not that people didn't have the CPU, HDD and RAM in the 3.9 days. Not only did they have all those things, but they were very much the target market for 3.9. These days that market has changed because the use case for Amigas has changed. Having your niche desires doesn't mean they're everyone else's desires, and waffling about it again and again and again doesn't change that. People have internet connections elsewhere and transferring to many Amigas is far easier than it has ever been, given how cheap things like Goteks and PCMCIA-CF card adaptors are.

[Reido]

Originally Posted by Daedalus

Polls like the multitude you're posting are pointless and very unlikely to achieve anything other than filling up the various forums with what could almost be considered spam.

.

This. For the casual reader like myself, who enjoys popping in and out of topics and reading interesting posts from well informed people, the shear quantity of threads/polls started by this fella in a couple of weeks, containing what I can only describe as a never ending stream of consciousness, is incredible. Spam is a generous word in this case. Some moderation maybe? Speaking only for myself here, but I'll be stopping by EAB less and less the more this nonsense continues.

[lilwshu]

Originally Posted by Reido

This. For the casual reader like myself, who enjoys popping in and out of topics and reading interesting posts from well informed people, the shear quantity of threads/polls started by this fella in a couple of weeks, containing what I can only describe as a never ending stream of consciousness, is incredible. Spam is a generous word in this case. Some moderation maybe? Speaking only for myself here, but I'll be stopping by EAB less and less the more this nonsense continues.

I agree with this statement, the endless sock puppetry coupled with the apparent inability of a lot of members to ignore obvious trolling is making EAB hard work at the moment.

[CCRider]

Apparently, he’s gone for good.

Thankfully.

[mfilos]

Hardlinks for all prefs work so awesome!!!

Added THEME support to my OS3.2.1 by hardlinking my most used prefs (VisualPrefs, Bidrie, Fullpalette, MagicMenu, TitleShadow, Font, WBPattern) per theme into actual ENVARC:Sys/xxx.prefs.
It's so nice being able to choose from Menu the theme I want, and after a reboot, all these applied and working as they should.
For every change everything is saved into every theme's prefs so nothing is lost

[boemann]

Good to hear

[orphan264]

Originally Posted by mfilos

Hardlinks for all prefs work so awesome!!!

mfilos - congrats! I am intrigued by what you were working to achieve, but I haven't completely understood the discussion/suggestions you were trying. Would you be so kind as to post an example of your script that is now working so I can see how you managed to make it work?