15 October 2023, 14:35 | #1021 |
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Excuse my innocence, but saying that the Amiga Doom version converted in few days by a single lobbyist on a dead platform without any commercial life was optimized for the system and that the PC one made by the very creators of the game wich were professionals (12 peoples !) On a growing worldwide market didn't get as much attention seems a little bit absurd.
Is it an eab thing to always devalue anything made on the Amiga ? Same thing with the post about Slam Tilt above. The game is a technical marvel, full 256 colors hyper smooth with great playability but still it isn't enough impressive. Last edited by sokolovic; 15 October 2023 at 15:47. |
15 October 2023, 17:10 | #1022 | |
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15 October 2023, 18:23 | #1023 | |
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First we have people telling that the Amiga and the AGA chipset are shit in doing Doom style games (or other PC VGA games) because planar gfx etc. Then it is proven by FACTS that not only the Amiga can do it, but it can do it easily better than more expensive PC setups ar the same time when properly converted. And then, we cannot compare Amiga ports with PC originals because Amiga ports would be optimized without any of the means, people or budget the PC or other platform had ? Seriously ? There is a giant and yet recurrent contradiction here. I'm not always confortable with Bruce argument but there he doesn't seems to be wrong to me. Far from it. Your exigences for the Amiga gaming universe are just too high. It juste seems that whatever it is done on this platform would'nt satisfy experts anyway. Last edited by sokolovic; 15 October 2023 at 18:44. |
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15 October 2023, 18:50 | #1024 | ||
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It's absolutely different story with Amiga. Which was already dead - as a official platform - at that time. It was all hobbyist job to port software and 3rd party hardware add-ons - like Phase 5 or Apollo accelerators. You can't expect me to believe that comparing vanilla doom on 386 with much more recent, hw optimized port (also using newer features like e.g. mouse look and aiming up/down) is ok. It's not comparison of the SAME thing! And to push my point - do you honestly believe should id software release A4k version of doom in 93 it would run much better on 030 than the poor 386? It would obviously run better clock for clock due to integrated data cache - but you honestly believe any numbers like ADoom or DoomAttack would've been attainable? Simple question, yes or no. |
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15 October 2023, 21:10 | #1025 | |
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And both the videos are not good enough for me for play also not sure why you showed a crippled running DX2 66 for comparison. |
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15 October 2023, 21:21 | #1026 | ||
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Anyway, the DX2 66 is irrelevant in that video and has nothing whatsoever to do with my point. I just searched for a vide of it running on a 486SX 25 and that was what came up and matched my recollection, performance wise. Obviously on a correctly configured DX2 66 it's going to be significantly more fluid than the SX 25, but I think the claim that you needed a 66MHz 486 DX2 to play the game properly is clearly false. By the time Doom2 came out, that was much more a standard configuration and yes, it was a bit too much for your basic 25MHz SX. Last edited by Karlos; 15 October 2023 at 21:27. |
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15 October 2023, 21:35 | #1027 |
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I like your ninja edits.
If you was happy good for you. |
15 October 2023, 22:13 | #1028 |
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And on vogons I encountered more than once an opinion that 25MHz 486 works great except some more open maps in which case the game noticeably stutters. I did put DX2 66 as a fairly common model which did guarantee good framerate 100% of time, with maxed out details, with decent resolution and full screen. So let me ask you again - does your experience with 25MHz 486 and Doom involve highest settings and absolutely fluid gameplay in each and every map? If not - what the hell is your problem?
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15 October 2023, 22:40 | #1029 |
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I already told you exactly what it involved. Once again, and with feeling. 320x200, full screen, "High Detail" (not the double width pixels), 15-20 FPS typical frame rate, the shareware release and soon after, the entire game, all three episodes. All on a 25MHz 486SX in the year 1993AD. I completed it absolutely no problem as did most of my contemporaries. I don't remember the frame rate ever being "unplayable", which as we've established is a subjective metric already.
Is that clear enough? |
15 October 2023, 22:44 | #1030 |
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For comparison, playing AB3D1 on a stock A1200. I also completed that, but the later levels were extremely challenging due to extreme slowdowns. It was a completely different experience on an accelerator card though, extremely fluid.
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16 October 2023, 03:58 | #1031 |
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I had 386DX40 while playing Doom1.
When my friend bought 486SX, I vividly recall that it was smoother, just not cost effective (e.g. too little performance for the price,but 4 months later price dropped,so it was ok then) But it was smoother. I don't recall if it was 486SX 25 or 33 MHz. Since I finished Room on 395DX40, I don't see why it would be hard on 486SX... Even 485DX2-66 had framedrops. Few, but it still wasn't a framedrop-free experience, especially in Doom2... |
16 October 2023, 07:31 | #1032 | ||||
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Another thing you didn't bother to consider is that the PC version was compiled with Watcom, which was known to be extremely fast for games (which is why it was used for Tomb Raider etc.) whereas the Amiga version just used whatever C compiler was available. Quote:
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But that's how it goes with Amiga fans. Amiga version not as good? Fault to Amiga! Commodore was useless! Amiga version is as good or better? Not apples to apples! It should have been even better! Commodore was useless! |
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16 October 2023, 07:49 | #1033 | |
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I don't know whether the PC version could use a mouse but I only played it with the keyboard, which wasn't very accurate and made aiming difficult. I also never got used to side-stepping - to many controls for me! But this has nothing to do with performance. If anything, using the mouse and having look up/down should make it run slower. |
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16 October 2023, 07:51 | #1034 | |
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The Doom demo files were recorded by John Romero using mouse & keyboard. |
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16 October 2023, 08:49 | #1035 |
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Since we're on the subject, Doom is a PC game that made the Amiga look awesome. I had more fun replaying Doom on doomattack on my 1200 68040 than I did on that original 486SX. Especially on RTG. On OS4 classic, it was playable at 640x400, on that same A1200.
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16 October 2023, 09:00 | #1036 | |
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I say "non-believers" because that's where these narratives come from - the cult-like obsession with the idea that everything re: Amiga must be ever so perfect, there's zero room for nuance, and if there's a problem it's always outsourced to a third party: a lazy dev, an evil publisher, a competing platform or, best of all, those traitorus fake fans. It's really tiresome to read this BS over and over again. Especially when you realize it's grown-ass men writing it, not some teens bickering in a schoolyard (tbh I think back in the day it was much less obsessive and more tongue-in-cheek than now). So, squabbling about caches etc is rather irrelevant, since the underlying conclusion - as always predicated with a hefty dose of "ifs" - is that it's Amiga owner's fault that they didn't invest in expensive upgrades for a dead-end platform in order to play a non-existent game. Which, by the way, wouldn't change Amiga's fortunes anyway, even "if" it did exist. But the cultists (not only in Amiga camp, it's a common theme) always want to believe in "magic bullet" narratives. If only! this or that chip/game was released in time, or a decision made...everything would be different and platform X would be now dominant instead of platform Y. Meanwhile, Doom did not save Jaguar, 32X, 3DO, nor was a reason for Apple's survival. Because magic bullets only work for monsters in fantasy stories. In reality, even if Amiga got Doom in 1994 what would it change? Some more people would buy an A1200 and a bunch of expansions (price of which was close to a decent PC with a monitor at the time)? Sure, but these numbers would be still minuscule compared to PC market penetration and would not change the unstoppability of the open-clone concept. |
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16 October 2023, 09:11 | #1037 | |
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16 October 2023, 09:27 | #1038 |
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16 October 2023, 09:37 | #1039 | |
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16 October 2023, 09:48 | #1040 |
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