Conversion Capers: Rygar

[sandruzzo]

Originally Posted by Trachu

Do what you can. what I am thinking is the actual cost of different paralax techniques on Amiga.

In JIM power copper copied background sprites are using all available DMA in display area, something i find very ineffective.

In Agony, static black and white plane requies blitter copying of entire bitplane every few frames - something also resource hungry.

In Risky woods they have to use 4 bitplanes in order to use 4 bitplanes sprite paralax effect - also no DMA left in display area.

So far our Ryggar DMA usage is very low and we have the superb graphics also. It would be even better if you would FINALLY fix display resolution ;-)

As far as i can see we could also make from sprites front field on the down of the screen - something like they did in Jim Power.

I did something with resolution, now I'm working on a new joy routine, when ready, I'll upload it, and do some test with it.

Now we'ree wasting a lot of time with blitter waiting since, so far, no interleaved bitmap used.

We're doing well, a lot of spare dma cicles.

There is a bug on winuae 3.3.0 that prevent me to copy my copperlist

[ReadOnlyCat]

Originally Posted by Trachu

In Agony, static black and white plane requies blitter copying of entire bitplane every few frames - something also resource hungry.

Note that the amount to copy is highly dependent on the image content. With a cleverly crafted image (lots of uniform areas) the cost could be reduced very significantly.

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by sandruzzo

I did something with resolution, now I'm working on a new joy routine, when ready, I'll upload it, and do some test with it.

Now we'ree wasting a lot of time with blitter waiting since, so far, no interleaved bitmap used.

We're doing well, a lot of spare dma cicles.

There is a bug on winuae 3.3.0 that prevent me to copy my copperlist

Prevents you copying the copperlist? How so?

[ReadOnlyCat]

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

Prevents you copying the copperlist? How so?

UAE also has very handy copperlist dumping debug functions which can be even more practical than a native debugger.

Cf this post from Tony: http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=963797&postcount=9

[sandruzzo]

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

Prevents you copying the copperlist? How so?

When I try to accesso to a file that i use to copy the copperlist, winuae crash

[sandruzzo]

here My copperlist

Copper:
dc.w $01fc,0 ; slow fetch mode AGA compatibility
dc.w $0100,$5200

CopScreen:

dc.w $8E,$2c98 ; DiwStrt
dc.w $90,$f481 ; DiwStop

dc.w $8E,$2c81 ; DiwStrt
dc.w $90,$2cc1 ; DiwStop

dc.w $92,$0039 ; DdfStart
dc.w $94,$00aa ; DdfStop


dc.w $0108,$0000+4
dc.w $010a,$0000+4

dc.w $0102
CopScroll:
dc.w $0000

dc.w $0104,$0001

CopSpr:
dc.w $0120,00000
dc.w $0122,00000
dc.w $0124,00000
dc.w $0126,00000
dc.w $0128,00000
dc.w $012a,00000
dc.w $012c,00000
dc.w $012e,00000
dc.w $0130,00000
dc.w $0132,00000
dc.w $0134,00000
dc.w $0136,00000
dc.w $0138,00000
dc.w $013a,00000
dc.w $013c,00000
dc.w $013e,00000

CopBpl:
dc.w $00e0,00000
dc.w $00e2,00000
dc.w $00e4,00000
dc.w $00e6,00000
dc.w $00e8,00000
dc.w $00ea,00000
dc.w $00ec,00000
dc.w $00ee,00000
dc.w $00f0,00000
dc.w $00f2,00000

dc.w $0180
Color0: dc.w $0000

dc.w $0182,$0310,$0184,$0700,$0186,$0900
dc.w $0188,$0c00,$018a,$0c70,$018c,$0eb0,$018e,$0eed
dc.w $0190,$0eca,$0192,$0ca8,$0194,$0a87,$0196,$0864
dc.w $0198,$0444,$019a,$0577,$019c,$0799,$019e,$09bb
dc.w $01a0,$0455,$01a2,$0852,$01a4,$0c94,$01a6,$0efb
dc.w $01a8,$0852,$01aa,$0064,$01ac,$0095,$01ae,$05c8
dc.w $01b0,$0c94,$01b2,$0420,$01b4,$0520,$01b6,$0630
dc.w $01b8,$0efb,$01ba,$0840,$01bc,$0950,$01be,$0d94

SprPos: ds.w 40*ParallaxHeight

dc.w $ffff,$fffe

Here my tab used to generate copper sprite

SprPrxS:
dc.w $0140,$0048
dc.w $0148,$0050
dc.w $0150,$0058
dc.w $0158,$0060

dc.w $0160,$0068
dc.w $0168,$0070
dc.w $0170,$0078
dc.w $0178,$0080

dc.w $0140,$0088
dc.w $0148,$0090
dc.w $0150,$0098
dc.w $0158,$00a0

dc.w $0160,$00a8
dc.w $0168,$00b0
dc.w $0170,$00b8

No voodoo here..

[Trachu]

Ok, as far as I can see there is the following cost of different techniques:

1. 32 colours 5 bitplane front page - no dual paralax (only front gameplay area).
Ryggar sprite fetches 8 words per scanline 8x32=256cc

2. 26 colours 5 bitplane front page - 128x100px background sprite paralax
Ryggar is 4 bitplane BOB and fetches 3x29x32=2784cc
Sprites fetches 8x2x100=1600cc
Cooper fetches 32x100=3200cc
Total cost: 2784+1600+3200=7584cc
Using this method paralax costs us 7584-256= 7328cc (every frame)more than no paralax mode

3. 26 colours 5 bitplane front page - 64x100px background sprite 4-7 paralax
Ryggar sprite 0-3 fetches 8 words per scanline 8x32=256cc
Sprites fetches 4x2x100=800cc
Cooper fetches 64x100=6400cc
Total cost: 256+800+6400=7456cc
Using this method paralax costs us 7456-256= 7200cc (every frame)more than no paralax mode

I believe version 3 is bad idea because it actually fetches only little less colour clocks, at the cost of much smaller paralax screen. I think our approach is the most optimal in case of 5 bitplane screen.

We finally will use a 256x192 screenmode, plus 16 pixels for scrolling, resulting in bitplane DMA for 272x192. It uses 5 bitplanes. This costs (272/16)*192*5 colour clocks, or 16320 colour clocks total for bitplane DMA.

The Amiga has 226x313 colour clocks available per PAL frame, or 70738 in total.
Memory refresh costs 4 colour clocks per scanline: 313x4 = 1252.
Audio costs up to 4 colour clocks per scanline: 313x4 = 1252.
Background paralax cost = 7328

So, finally we should have 70738 - 1.252 - 1.252 - 7328 - 16320 = 44586 colour clocks left.
Each enemy bob costs also 2784, so ten of them would requie 27840 colour clocks, still plenty to deal with the rest of the game. I believe we can fit into 50Hz!!!

[sandruzzo]

Originally Posted by Trachu

Ok, as far as I can see there is the following cost of different techniques:

1. 32 colours 5 bitplane front page - no dual paralax (only front gameplay area).
Ryggar sprite fetches 8 words per scanline 8x32=256cc

2. 26 colours 5 bitplane front page - 128x100px background sprite paralax
Ryggar is 4 bitplane BOB and fetches 3x29x32=2784cc
Sprites fetches 8x2x100=1600cc
Cooper fetches 32x100=3200cc
Total cost: 2784+1600+3200=7584cc
Using this method paralax costs us 7584-256= 7328cc (every frame)more than no paralax mode

3. 26 colours 5 bitplane front page - 64x100px background sprite 4-7 paralax
Ryggar sprite 0-3 fetches 8 words per scanline 8x32=256cc
Sprites fetches 4x2x100=800cc
Cooper fetches 64x100=6400cc
Total cost: 256+800+6400=7456cc
Using this method paralax costs us 7456-256= 7200cc (every frame)more than no paralax mode

I believe version 3 is bad idea because it actually fetches only little less colour clocks, at the cost of much smaller paralax screen. I think our approach is the most optimal in case of 5 bitplane screen.

We finally will use a 256x192 screenmode, plus 16 pixels for scrolling, resulting in bitplane DMA for 272x192. It uses 5 bitplanes. This costs (272/16)*192*5 colour clocks, or 16320 colour clocks total for bitplane DMA.

The Amiga has 226x313 colour clocks available per PAL frame, or 70738 in total.
Memory refresh costs 4 colour clocks per scanline: 313x4 = 1252.
Audio costs up to 4 colour clocks per scanline: 313x4 = 1252.
Background paralax cost = 7328

So, finally we should have 70738 - 1.252 - 1.252 - 7328 - 16320 = 44586 colour clocks left.
Each enemy bob costs also 2784, so ten of them would requie 27840 colour clocks, still plenty to deal with the rest of the game. I believe we can fit into 50Hz!!!

If we do some modify to bobs layout we can even get some more cycles from rygar. Since I would like to use interleaved bitmap to free cpu, and if we map rygar to planes 1-3-5, with only 2 blit operations we can spare a lot of time. First, will be full coockie cut, and second will be used to make an hole into bitplane 2-4!

Who know maybe we can even try 6 planes...

Keep in mind that since I don't do the classic coockie cut way:

save screen->draw bob->restore screen.

we have a lot power to use.

I do this: draw-bob->restore screen

[Trachu]

hows it possible to restore screen in situation you dont know what it was before because you have not save it????

Considering your request i have a few questions:
1. Since it is the mask which selectes the pixels can i use all 8 coloursexcept transparent??

2, I believe in this situation what we are looking is two sets of 8 colours bobs, but one of this sets must use half bright colours hmmmm. Some bobs would use one set others would use other.

[sandruzzo]

Originally Posted by Trachu

hows it possible to restore screen in situation you dont know what it was before because you have not save it????

Considering your request i have a few questions:
1. Since it is the mask which selectes the pixels can i use all 8 coloursexcept transparent??

2, I believe in this situation what we are looking is two sets of 8 colours bobs, but one of this sets must use half bright colours hmmmm. Some bobs would use one set others would use other.

Very simple: since I have a triple buffer, I pick up screen to restore from third buffer

1) I think so, we have to try.

2) Yes, since we use half bright, we have to do some test.

[Trachu]

Considering Amiga architecture limitations this is what i allocated

Bitplanes - colour register
000000 - 00 copperised sprite colour 0
000001 - 01 Foreground
000010 - 02 Foreground
000011 - 03 Foreground
000100 - 04 Foreground
000101 - 05 Foreground
000110 - 06 Foreground
000111 - 07 Foreground
001000 - 08 Foreground
001001 - 09 Foreground
001010 - 10 Foreground, BOB colour set 1, colour 1
001011 - 11 Foreground, BOB colour set 1, colour 2
001100 - 12 Foreground
001101 - 13 Foreground
001110 - 14 Foreground, BOB colour set 1, colour 3
001111 - 15 Foreground, BOB colour set 1, colour 4
010000 - 16 Foreground
010001 - 17 background sprite colour 1
010010 - 18 background sprite colour 2
010011 - 19 background sprite colour 3
010100 - 20 background sprite colour 1
010101 - 21 Foreground, BOB colour set 2, colour 1
010110 - 22 Foreground
010111 - 23 Foreground, BOB colour set 2, colour 2
011000 - 24 background sprite colour 2
011001 - 25 Foreground
011010 - 26 Foreground, BOB colour set 1, colour 5
011011 - 27 Foreground, BOB colour set 1, colour 6
011100 - 28 background sprite colour 3
011101 - 29 Foreground, BOB colour set 2, colour 3
011110 - 30 Foreground, BOB colour set 1, colour 7
011111 - 31 Foreground, BOB colour set 2, colour 4, BOB colour set 1, colour 8

....
....
110101 - 53 Foreground, BOB colour set 2, colour 5 (half bright of colour 1)
110111 - 55 Foreground, BOB colour set 2, colour 6 (half bright of colour 2)
111101 - 61 Foreground, BOB colour set 2, colour 7 (half bright of colour 3)
111111 - 63 Foreground, BOB colour set 2, colour 8 (half bright of colour 4)

[sandruzzo]

Originally Posted by Trachu

Considering Amiga architecture limitations this is what i allocated

Bitplanes - colour register
000000 - 00 copperised sprite colour 0
000001 - 01 Foreground
000010 - 02 Foreground
000011 - 03 Foreground
000100 - 04 Foreground
000101 - 05 Foreground
000110 - 06 Foreground
000111 - 07 Foreground
001000 - 08 Foreground
001001 - 09 Foreground
001010 - 10 Foreground, BOB colour set 1, colour 1
001011 - 11 Foreground, BOB colour set 1, colour 2
001100 - 12 Foreground
001101 - 13 Foreground
001110 - 14 Foreground, BOB colour set 1, colour 3
001111 - 15 Foreground, BOB colour set 1, colour 4
010000 - 16 Foreground
010001 - 17 background sprite colour 1
010010 - 18 background sprite colour 2
010011 - 19 background sprite colour 3
010100 - 20 background sprite colour 1
010101 - 21 Foreground, BOB colour set 2, colour 1
010110 - 22 Foreground
010111 - 23 Foreground, BOB colour set 2, colour 2
011000 - 24 background sprite colour 2
011001 - 25 Foreground
011010 - 26 Foreground, BOB colour set 1, colour 5
011011 - 27 Foreground, BOB colour set 1, colour 6
011100 - 28 background sprite colour 3
011101 - 29 Foreground, BOB colour set 2, colour 3
011110 - 30 Foreground, BOB colour set 1, colour 7
011111 - 31 Foreground, BOB colour set 2, colour 4, BOB colour set 1, colour 8

....
....
110101 - 53 Foreground, BOB colour set 2, colour 5 (half bright of colour 1)
110111 - 55 Foreground, BOB colour set 2, colour 6 (half bright of colour 2)
111101 - 61 Foreground, BOB colour set 2, colour 7 (half bright of colour 3)
111111 - 63 Foreground, BOB colour set 2, colour 8 (half bright of colour 4)

with this allocation we'll lost a lot of colors. Maybe for now it's better to have the oldest layout.

You did a hell of job, and they look so good! Now i'm working on buddies system. 8 colors for enemies seems to few. Do you have any test pic?

[sandruzzo]

this would be the layout only for bobs':

000001 rygar color 1
000100 rygar color 2
000101 rygar color 3
010000 rygar color 4
010001 rygar color 5
010100 rygar color 6
010101 rygar color 7

enemies:

000010 enemy color 1
001000 enemy color 2
001010 enemy color 3
100000 enemy color 4
100010 enemy color 5
101000 enemy color 6
101010 enemy color 7

[Trachu]

Originally Posted by sandruzzo

this would be the layout only for bobs':

000001 rygar color 1
000100 rygar color 2
000101 rygar color 3
010000 rygar color 4
010001 rygar color 5
010100 rygar color 6
010101 rygar color 7

enemies:

000010 enemy color 1
001000 enemy color 2
001010 enemy color 3
100000 enemy color 4
100010 enemy color 5
101000 enemy color 6
101010 enemy color 7

i want to have full 8 colours per bob, not 7
Your enemies will use bright version of colour 0 which is copperised, so the enemies could use only 6. Mine version is better,

[sandruzzo]

Originally Posted by Trachu

i want to have full 8 colours per bob, not 7
Your enemies will use bright version of colour 0 which is copperised, so the enemies could use only 6. Mine version is better,

With interleaved two bitmaps, is that what we can do.

[Codetapper]

Why do you want to limit the colours so much just to save slightly on the drawing? It seems crazy to sacrifice so many colours just so you don't have to cookie cut 5 bitplanes (assuming you're doing 3 cookie cut planes and then punching the mask into the other 2).

[sandruzzo]

Originally Posted by Codetapper

Why do you want to limit the colours so much just to save slightly on the drawing? It seems crazy to sacrifice so many colours just so you don't have to cookie cut 5 bitplanes (assuming you're doing 3 cookie cut planes and then punching the mask into the other 2).

It was a test. I would like to free as much as I can cpu. Obviosly that current version is looking good, and I think we left it

[Trachu]

Codetapper: Sandruzzo wants to make the Ryggar technical masterpiecie and that is why i like him
You started this thread by hipthetical question we turn back in time. Now we know ,in 1990 Sandruzzo would never finish the game LOL. This thread is becoming more than just this game, we are exploring unresearched Amiga possibilities.
Converting the sprites to 8+8 is doable however not easy as long as you want to have good quality.

[sandruzzo]

Originally Posted by Trachu

Codetapper: Sandruzzo wants to make the Ryggar technical masterpiecie and that is why i like him
You started this thread by hipthetical question we turn back in time. Now we know ,in 1990 Sandruzzo would never finish the game LOL. This thread is becoming more than just this game, we are exploring unresearched Amiga possibilities.
Converting the sprites to 8+8 is doable however not easy as long as you want to have good quality.

All of us is doing what we have, in order to have a masterpiecie. And exploring new way to do thing is part of the process.

[Trachu]

considering 8c enemies this is what i have so far :P