19 August 2021, 09:53 | #81 |
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@Promilus
I agree 100% JIT will not work on everything. Far from it. The good thing is that it is not that difficult to choose what Emulator to use with PiStorm. Either have 2 microSDcards or there will be some kind of boot menu. Most Amiga freaks that is interested in either Vampire or Pistorm have more that 1 Amiga. This was mentioned in the thread before. There is simply no Amiga that does it all. Some times I wish Amiga was not that complicated regarding different hardware and what software will work or not. I think that is one of the reasons C64 is more poular. |
19 August 2021, 10:05 | #82 | ||
son of 68k
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New features are complex and don't help at all for programming flexibility. Actually, quite the opposite. They're 100% speed oriented and pay no care about ease to code, code density, cleanness of architecture. IOW in another cpu family they might have been 'nice', but on the 68k they completely miss the point. The problem lies in that the new features need coders to support them, where it's the new features that should instead support coder's needs. As for switching to PPC, x86 or Arm, that can't fully replace 68k for the same reasons. |
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19 August 2021, 10:31 | #83 | |
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You have to test on a range of weirdo hardware, and if you don't release on adf, WhdLoad and CD32 at least you have will a bunch of people complaining. Compare that to developing for consoles where there is usually only one config, or the C64 where you are set with the main unit and a 1541 and the only thing that you need to take into account is the SID and some slightly different colours on some very early units. |
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19 August 2021, 10:59 | #84 |
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19 August 2021, 11:16 | #85 | |
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BTW. Regarding guidelines - you have a PM from me |
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19 August 2021, 11:28 | #86 | |
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For games that run on vanilla hardware you want all the power you can get, switching the OS off. Apart from that, the Amiga still has the problem of all these different modes of delivering games. |
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19 August 2021, 11:45 | #87 | |
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19 August 2021, 12:24 | #88 | |
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Source: http://www.apollo-computer.com/products.html |
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19 August 2021, 12:39 | #89 |
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So, which apps and games take advantage of AMMX ? Must be some killer apps to have anything to do with the vamps success ...
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19 August 2021, 12:47 | #90 |
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19 August 2021, 12:50 | #91 |
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@manossg - that's exactly how marketing works. That's how AMD sold their K5 processors introducing PR (performance rating basically understood as pentium rating) and then K6-2 and K6-III with 3DNow!
And truth to be told - at least 3DNow! had fairly wide support - mostly because popular game engines supported it so any game built upon it had a good chance of supporting it as well. And also 3dfx glide driver included 3DNow! support which gave AMD quite few frames per second once new version was installed - not enough to combat Pentium II of course but noticeable difference for all AMD users (there weren't many but most likely more % than vampire users across whole amiga community atm). So what I'm trying to tell you - it doesn't matter if AMMX and 64bit lured ppl to buy Vampire. It has not been used in great many applications so I find no reason to assume ppl bought it for those features. Many ppl bought vampire because of performance results presented by the team (and those were pure 68k code benchmarks), integrated FPU, IDE, USB and SAGA (beta cores for A500,600/2000 users). Those were selling points. It was compact device giving most of things requiring pretty big sandwich before. And for small Amiga models were basically impossible to have. Also titles you did mention are quite new (at least to amiga). AMMX is with us for few years already. |
19 August 2021, 12:58 | #92 | |
son of 68k
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They badly want their AMMX/64-bit to be used massively, they're proud of these things, but in reality they don't count. I wouldn't be surprised if this even has pushed potential customers away. |
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19 August 2021, 13:06 | #93 |
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19 August 2021, 13:37 | #94 | |
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@Promilus
This is the core of our disagreement again, mate, a different viewpoint. You see a 'trap', I see exciting opportunities. You see dead ends, I see things being taken a step forward. You see fragmentation, I feel that if a thing is good and worthwhile, it will survive-if not, it won't. Does any one of us hold the absolute truth? I don't think so, but I am looking forward to see and experience all the exciting developments in the Amiga scene. The fact is that the PiStorm will not be able to run these apps, even if (when) it surpasses the Vampire on raw speed. I am sure PiStorm will manage to overcome most or all of the obstacles and become another truly kickass option. I also would be happy if the PiStorm team (or CS labs or iComp or whoever with their respective hw) decides to introduce new stuff as well, to take advantage of this power. We Greeks have a saying: "I wish the neighbour's goat would drop down dead", describing the need to blemish the achievements of others, instead of feeling happy for them and/or trying to improve ourselves. Unfortunately, that's the vibe I am getting from this thread, even from the title. Quote:
So what? The fact is that titles optimised for AMMX are being released, things are moving forward and there is a growing interest in the Vampire community. You have every right to like it or dislike it, to praise it or criticize it, but that's the way things are, at least for now. |
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20 August 2021, 13:02 | #95 | |
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people buy it for it being a fast board. for extra stuff like AMMX, 64 bit etc it is a utter failure. and I am happy about it being a failure. they should have scrapped all those ideas and first focus on compability (meaning behaving like the item they try to mimic) FIRST.. then when that it spot on maybe put in shit. Anyway this is my typical vampire-ranting I know. the vampire is a success of the meaning of sold cards for sure. but AMMX have nothing to do with it. Last edited by Chucky; 20 August 2021 at 13:40. |
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20 August 2021, 15:26 | #96 | |
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Funny, we were willing to wait for floppies to load back on a 68000, yet today we're not happy with 5s load time to Workbench from CF and 68020 making everything playable and usable. |
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20 August 2021, 15:56 | #97 |
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The blitter emulation uses AMMX. I suspect software mixing in AHI drivers to also use it. It is common on all platforms to see vector units used in drivers mostly.
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20 August 2021, 17:36 | #98 | ||
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A 50MHz 030 is OK if you don't mind lower resolution and slower operation, But a Vampire definitely 'changes the user experience much' in comparison. Whether you want that change is another matter. I mostly use the A1200 because I prefer the bold look of AGA on my TV, and I am happy to run 8 colors on Workbench. But the Vampired A600 is great for when I need to compile a large C program or run stuff that needs RTG and the fastest possible CPU. My A500 only gets used for stuff that can't handle the extra speed and power of my other machines. I have a minimal WB1.3 disk to cut down loading time, which is OK because I don't need all the stuff my other machines have to load. Nevertheless I hope to add a lowly 14MHz 68000 with a bit of FastRAM and CF Card or hard drive someday, because some games appreciate it. |
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20 August 2021, 18:02 | #99 | |
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I think some people are just upset because they don't have a Vampire and are worried that they will be left out. But so long as drivers or libraries are used it's no problem - except for possible slower operation when AMMX isn't available. That's no worse than having to put up with emulating instructions on an 060 that even stock A1200s have. |
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20 August 2021, 18:07 | #100 |
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well I call it a failure as it was a way to lure people into their closed platform and their economical eco-system.
however thankfully people seems not to be that very interested in doing stuff with it. sure some software here and there but no real deal-breaker. and for me : no demos. (and for me Amiga is all about the demos!) for me the total fiasko is to put shit into a "cpu" that isn't used yet before actually implementing what we got. FPU and MMU (well they DID put in a mediocre FPU after a while that sure does its job but not correct) however. still: AMMX is not why people buy Vampire.. and this is also why I call it a failure as it is not a "buying point" for people. it is more that it is a board that makes your amiga run faster. NOT the AMMX crap. |
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