19 May 2021, 17:52 | #81 |
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19 May 2021, 18:13 | #82 | |||||||
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No, it's not. You assumed you knew what I meant and then when I corrected you, you call it nitpicking instead of accepting that you, as so often in our discussions, are just wrong.
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"What you don't see here is that not all bugs have equal importance and the ones that can do the most damage aren't the ones that escape detection." == an assumption about what I do and do not see. It's also dead wrong as I do see the difference between types of bugs. "but don't pretend it's a proof" == an assumption. It's also dead wrong, I gave proof and support for it. You gave a philosophical argument which is easily disproven by simple observation and is thus worthless. "This strongly suggests you're talking about crashing. " == another assumption. And as always, a dead wrong one. Quote:
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Too bad then that I have literally not mentioned the 68040. Nor did I say anything about writing buggy code by design. |
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19 May 2021, 18:44 | #83 |
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19 May 2021, 19:07 | #84 | |||||||||||
son of 68k
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It is neither. Just knowledge about cpu incompatibilities - and it's not much as normal code isn't affected.
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I have proven you wrong and you can't accept it, ok, but don't start doing name calling. Quote:
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That alone invalidates it as the best solution. List above is nothing in comparison. Quote:
You just repeat the same thing over and over, it does not make it more true. Quote:
But maybe you want me to show you how many assumptions you did about me ? Or even where you were directly insulting ? Quote:
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How to interpret this then : "if there is a tool that makes it so that the users of all those machines I personally don't care about can still use stuff" This implies the tool does the work. It doesn't. And don't argue on semantics. It is the tool that makes it, written clearly in your text. But now that you deny your own words, no problem, but then all your arguing about the usefulness of whdload in this area falls apart. Quote:
And for the rest, use the OS. Quote:
Guess what, the OS developer manual asks you to use the OS. |
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19 May 2021, 19:14 | #85 |
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19 May 2021, 19:43 | #86 |
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forget it. bad joke
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19 May 2021, 20:29 | #87 | |
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The thread derailed, as usual, but this fits perfectly to my initial thoughts:
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When the author is alive and interested in fixing his games, please communicate! It's an advantange for both sides. I am generally interested in writing code which runs on all classic architectures. |
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19 May 2021, 20:50 | #88 |
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for the 3 last items I agree. But for the first item that requires you to add a "controls" menu that you probably don't have => extra work for you.
In the meantime, if you adapt to cd32 joypad for pause & other meta keys, in a few weeks someone is going to ask you to support vampire buttons too. But for the 3 last items I agree. For the "defense" of the person who wrote the whdload slave, sometimes authors have moved on to another project and don't have the time to create another release for stuff like that. |
19 May 2021, 21:02 | #89 | |
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I'm just talking about bugs. |
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19 May 2021, 21:03 | #90 |
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19 May 2021, 21:29 | #91 |
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19 May 2021, 22:33 | #92 | |||||||||||
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Right, before I continue - I had a bit of a break and read back what I wrote. Not too happy about the tone I've been using and I do appologise for that. It's not my intention to insult or demean people and if I have done then I do appologise.
I'll try to be less antagonistic moving forward, though I'll also try to round of this discussion as I don't see much changing going forward. Quote:
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Anyway, I don't agree that you've proven me wrong. And even if I were to grant you the mathematical evidence is lacking (which I'm not convinced of), it still doesn't really change the reality that bug-free software doesn't really seem to exist. I agree I got overboard in my argumentation about that, but I was trying to make a point in full, rather than just stick with one example and be done with it. It's sometimes hard to argue a point. I was considering adding more forms of evidence, but decided against it because I honestly feel this has gone too far as is. Quote:
I'm guessing here, but it seems that this may have been caused by the topic drifting so much from 'bugs in Amiga software' to 'bugs in general'. For the record, I'm talking about the latter. Quote:
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Last edited by roondar; 19 May 2021 at 23:18. |
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19 May 2021, 22:52 | #93 |
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My games have two “versions”, a trackloaded A500, kill the OS version, and a version that tries as hard as it can to keep the OS fully functional. This is lots of extra work in (mainly) testing. I can see the appeal of only developing the base A500 version and letting the experienced WHDload patchers do their work (if they feel so inclined). It’s a win-win really, as the developer can save time and just focus on the game, and it seems some people actually enjoy doing patches,
It’s not really an option for me as I have networking code, so really need to keep the OS up and running, but I don’t think it’s a big deal if people go the WHDload route? |
19 May 2021, 23:06 | #94 |
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if you have 90% of your games running with whdload you want the 10 other % with whdload.
If you have 10% of your games running with whdload, it's not the same thing. I developped a script generator to create AGS menus. Guess what: it scans whdload slaves and creates scripts only using whdload commands. If I had to support normal HD running scripts it would mean creating the script manually for each game, assigns, ... with a possibility that the game crashes because not enough mem. But I'm not playing CD or big HD games. More focused or arcade. |
20 May 2021, 08:25 | #95 | ||||||||||
son of 68k
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Anyway, bugs in software have caused some havoc during history, that's clear, but it is what's the most visible. Like plane crashes. Programs that just work are kinda invisible, no breaking news about them. And i've seen some which have worked during 40 years without a single issue. Quote:
So for a game programmer, your list indeed outweighs unwieldy file IO. But for a player, it clearly does not - at least for me as a player. Quote:
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Anyone can inadvertently make a logical fallacy. Quote:
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I find it strange whdload authors ask new games to use it. It is clearly not the original purpose. |
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20 May 2021, 08:49 | #96 | |
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20 May 2021, 09:34 | #97 | |
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Others are going the same route. |
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20 May 2021, 09:46 | #98 | |||
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Agreed
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The wider point would be that compatibility across a wide range of devices (even if they are ostensibly compatible with one another) is well known to be an extremely tricky subject. Quote:
But perhaps it's not clear what I meant: I actually mean the route that McGeezer took, where he made a non-WHDLoad game and arranged for a WHDLoad slave to be ready on release. I fully understand this may not have come across in my posts though, sorry it wasn't clear. Last edited by roondar; 20 May 2021 at 10:33. |
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20 May 2021, 14:02 | #99 | |||
son of 68k
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The most common case we could face isn't true compatibility issue, but simply a random error triggering more often on some configs than on others. But, believe me, if you've successfully tested your code under winuae jit, you can be reasonably sure it will not fail on other accelerated machines. In addition, all OS / hardware stuff i use is in include files i reuse over and over. I pushed the concept so far that if someone could rewrite them for another 68k platform, all my code would suddenly work on it too Quote:
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But hell doors open when a slave is released without asking original game author first. It's fine for me if someone makes whdload slave for one of my programs and tests it in this environment, like this can be done with tools such as enforcer. But doing special versions (not only whdload, but also adf), i don't like it. And releasing patches in my back, it's a big no. All my games multitask fully. You can pause the game, start some internet download in the background, or whatever. You can quit them all cleanly and without any leak due to my internal resource tracking. If you have special hardware such as serial mouse/keyboard requiring unusual drivers, it will work just fine. All disk i/o happens normally, obviously. Don't tell me a whdload version would have an edge over that. Nope. Definitely not. If you want to have a reason why i don't like the idea of whdload for new games, then it's that one. |
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20 May 2021, 14:54 | #100 |
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one of the ST ports I tried crashed after the "FTL" logo. Not sure if it was one of yours or Galahad. Didn't try with whdload.
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