04 November 2020, 21:40 | #81 | ||||||||
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I appreciate your attempt help get on the same page.
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I don't consider you stupid at all or anyone else that matter. That's an extremely insulting statement that people make. Everyone can learn. I know it has a Scandoubler, I've been using it for over 30 years. I realize some connections are being made so I'll expand even further. I thought that commenting about the Picasso 4 monitor and the CVisionPPC monitor being used together or not was enough to get the message across. Seems not. So I'll explain my setup further. The Picasso 4 is connected to my HDTV via a VGA+Audio-to-HDMI connector. So Audio of Picasso 4 is connecting to VGA-to-HDMI connector. Functions very well that way. Display of Amiga video and Picasso 640x480 or high screens do great. My CVisionPPC is connected to another, order monitor. Quote:
You mean SwitchType=JAV0SOFT or "JAVOSOFT" doesn't seem to do anything. I also tried using SwitchType=PicassoIV but that didn't help. CVisionPPC's screen just goes blank and then I hear garbled sounds form whatever WHDLoad game. Quote:
Noo....I don't want to use ModePro for any other Mode Promotion program. That was my point. I would rather Not use any of those. I have used ModePro in the past and it's great, I know how to use it. But I have it disabled because don't want to. Quote:
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15Khz or 31Khz has functioned very well here with Picasso96 2.0 and the newer versions. Before CVisionPPC driver was added. That's why I typed that if I don't have the CVisionPPC monitor IN monitors and ONLY the PicassoIV monitor in monitors then the PicassoIV board displays Amiga Native modes as it should. I'm not sure how much clearer I may be but I will keep attempting if confusion still exists. Quote:
I understand that completely. What the CVisionPPC will do...before the monitor is loaded and initialized is display a 640x480 native Amiga screen. So will the PicassoIV...before the monitor driver is loaded. I could share screen shots if that's helpful. Quote:
That's a clue I didn't understand before. So, as I typed above, I tried "PicassoIV" to see if it would force native screens to go to the monitor, but that didn't see to work. So, I don't know what "brand" I'm looking for. Device ID? As in what "WhichAmiga" shows for the board? I'll try that. Quote:
Then I guess my description above that paragraph will be a surprise to you. I don't "need" the CVisionPPC and Picasso 4 boards installed at the same time but I am not going to disconnect and reconnect often to use one or the other. I can see that for now "disabling" CVisionPPC from monitors is what is working. So the physical boards stay attached. They function very well with GFX4 as I'm hoping P96 will do some time. Tecnically, this is not a patch of a library entry point, but it is the "VecTable" in the display info data base for all native screen modes that are patched over by the CVisionPPC. Unfortunately, P96 cannot know where these entries should go into the ROM, the ROM vectors for them are not available anywhere, and thus, any attempt to create a native display on the CVisionPPC will fail. P5 called that a "software scandoubler", but it is actually a ROM-based mode promotion.[/QUOTE] I'm not attempting to create a native display for the CVisionPPC with the CVisionPPC Monitor loaded, not at all. I'm attempt to get WHDLoad Screens to show on PicassoIV board when the PicassoIV monitor is also loaded and running with CVisionPPC monitor loaded and running. Currently CGX4 does this, P96 does not...not that I have...found, yet. I hope this clarifies better. |
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04 November 2020, 21:59 | #82 | |
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That's exactly what I'm used to and thought. For PicassoIV I have DISPLAYCHAIN=Yes For CVisionPPC I have DISPLAYCHAIN=No Here's the display of my PicassoIV board from these settings. |
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04 November 2020, 22:03 | #83 | |
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05 November 2020, 00:11 | #84 |
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Zippper:
The CVPPC does slow the use of CSPPC some, but it doesn't slow the Picasso 4 at all. I haven't had any conflicts between Picasso 4 and CVisionPPC with CGX4. I don't rely on benchmarks, more about noticing. |
05 November 2020, 03:58 | #85 | |
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Not looking forward to resetting all the Lightwave screenmode promotions up again. *Edit* Didn't need too, those still worked. Weird that I had to delete the one for sysinfo and re-add it to ModePro. I tested on my Virtualbox Amithlon and it worked so I installed the new P96 on my physical Amithlon and it didn't.....so I "guessed" at deleting the configured apps/screens and adding them back....and it worked. Last edited by SnkBitten; 05 November 2020 at 04:06. Reason: additional info |
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05 November 2020, 08:38 | #86 | |
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I had to go and double check whether I had missed something in the documentation, but basically this concept is not covered in there apart from a very quick mention when discussing this particular tooltype. I wonder what else I've misunderstood about P96 over the years. ;-) Last edited by Jope; 05 November 2020 at 08:46. |
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05 November 2020, 09:00 | #87 | ||
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I found this, does this describe the JAVOSOFT device? https://forum.amiga.org/index.php?to...3703#msg173703 Quote:
This sounds like an ideal solution compared to the Ratte switch, which takes a line from the parallel port. What am I missing? Is it not possible to implement for others than CVPPC? |
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05 November 2020, 14:29 | #88 | ||
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Why? All the other cards(!) populate the boardinfo hook to switch the signal. Is there a particular reason why you do not want to use the on-board switch of the existing VGA cards? |
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05 November 2020, 14:40 | #89 | |||||
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All P96 can do is to overwrite these functions with its own, so the "CVisionPPC software scandoubler" aka "firmware driven mode promotion" continues to work. It cannot remove these patches as the original entry points have been lost. In short: Once you have a CVisionPPC in your system, the native Amiga video output is dead and cannot be reached from the operating system. Quote:
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05 November 2020, 19:37 | #90 | ||||||
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Okay, that makes sense to me. It's what I was also figuring. Interesting that if I disable CVPPC Monitor, the Picasso 4 will change display and show native Amiga screen. Even if the CVPPC board is connected to CSPPC. Hmm.. Quote:
Ahhhh, that's what I was getting at. So this is what CyberGFX 4 is doing. They found a way to override CVPPC Firmware. Which point to info that you commented on before, they got info fro Phase 5 to do it. Nice...for them, nasty for others like yourself..and us. Haha! Quote:
I'm getting this about the OS...now. It's only reachable by the Hardware, Picasso 4/CVisionPPC and Driver software Picasso96/P96 and CGX 4. So, if I connected to my literal Amiga Video out port, which I don't have a connector for..it would display but not any game or other programs screens. Quote:
Since the mode promotion in CVisionPPC is still active, that's why if I have Workbench displayed on CVPPC and run a WHDLoad game, it then shows on Picasso 4 digitized screen...not always "correct" video, some off center happening with some games, but very much playable. When I boot the A4000..I get displays from both PicassoIV and CVisionPPC of Boot menu, and my custom menu before anything else loads, including SetPatch. So both are displaying native Amiga screen during boot. So, both are digitizing it. Hmm.. Years later, interesting what you learn. Always learning. Fantastic. Quote:
Here's the part I commented about. Cool for P5 & CGX..but not for us and You now. I've read about your attempts, I very much understand. Quote:
If I have Workbench on PIV screen, WHDLoad ATTEMPTS and fails to display on CVPPC, and sound is very odd. If I have Workbench on CVPPC, then WHDLoad displays on PIV..and everything is functioning as it should. You've helped clarify well. I knew we'd get there. Hehe. It's an easy enough workaround for now. Either display CVPPC monitor OR display Workbench on CVPPC. Not hard to do. Just didn't expected to have to do that. It's worth it for new Intuition. |
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13 November 2020, 00:37 | #91 |
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Just wanted to report that screen dragging works for me, but I see occiasionally flashes of the screen underneather the screen that is being dragged as I move the screen up and down. Not sure if this is P96 related, or related to my system:
3000D 3.1.4 & ROMS Cybervision 64 I'm using a 800x600 16bit screen. To get my second screen I just open DOPUS5. The recommendation to have Multiview open a separate screen never seemed to work for me, I could not drag it. I assume it somehow is not a copy of the properties of my WB screen, therefore incompatible for dragging. thanks all, RDP |
13 November 2020, 07:24 | #92 |
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@thread
excellent discussion. I wonder if getting early enough (structures that log data) - to log changes would help. Even if that means adding new features that store or reset data or even copy structures / settings into dummys. Abstract it away. You want access, request it. Detect specific software and deal with them at each stage. We could do with better documentation, so one can visualize it better. |
13 November 2020, 17:25 | #93 | |
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Thus, in the end, one adjustment, six bytes to write. Now, the problem is that it can happen that one of the three bytes is updated, whereas the other two are not, and thus the screen split happens at the wrong position on the screen as the chipset then reads a partially updated register value. P96 tries to address that by waiting to a vertical blank before updating the registers, but due to the Amiga being multitasking, this is not entirely reliable as another task can jump in just after we have waited, and then the timing is off. Even more unfortunate, not every graphics card can trigger a vertical retrace interrupt within which we could update the registers. Thus, it is really the combination of multiple shortcomings of the VGA and 8080 legacy that causes this. |
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13 November 2020, 17:26 | #94 |
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14 November 2020, 07:39 | #95 | |
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I meant when software patches the system, the operating system logs those changes at runtime, so one could undo it. [offtopic] I watched a Linux talk where they proposed a Javascript like layer in the kernel to update components in realtime. Alot of Linux devs are getting burned out with the constant maintanance, so they want a more automated and clean system. eBPF - Rethinking the Linux Kernel: [ Show youtube player ] |
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14 November 2020, 09:13 | #96 | |
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To view the installed patches: http://aminet.net/dev/debug/TRSaferPtch.lha All this exists. I don't think a javascript system would lead to a cleaner system. It would lead to an even more convoluted system that is even harder to maintain. More security holes to fix in the patch system. Some of the recent ideas like systemd or pulseaudio were just terrible. |
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14 November 2020, 14:13 | #97 | |
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Concerning this, I believe I have now a solution. This is all unnecessary complicated as the S3ViRGE chip on the CVision3D has two options for generating a picture, the classical VGA system (supporting screen dragging) and a "stream processor engine" which adds support for video overlays, but does not support screen dragging. The P96 driver currently uses the second engine, allowing video overlays, but with the side effect that screen dragging does not work. It does work for 32bit because there the bandwidth is not sufficient to allow video overlays in first place, so the stream processor is turned off. What is currently happening is that, with immense help of Harald, I am looking into a driver that switches between the two modes of the S3 chip, thus turns off the video overlay once you start dragging. Thus, you would get screen dragging and video overlays, but the latter only if nothing is dragged (fair enough). You will loose the 24bit RGB mode, but the 32bit mode is still there. This is because the 24-bit mode is only created by the stream processor, and the VGA engine cannot generate it. So the S3 is more like "two chips in one". Depending on how much patience Harald has, we *may* also get byte/word flipped modes such as ARGB (instead of BGRA) and 15 bit RGB (non-PC) which may be interesting for some emulators. Unfortunately, it is really tough to debug all this without a board at my hands, but at least we know now that in principle my idea is working (i.e. switch between the two video engines the S3 has). |
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14 November 2020, 19:37 | #98 | |
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17 November 2020, 18:41 | #99 | |
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Hi Thomas, as you know, I have a lot of patience on this issue The thing is, as you know all very well, that in the real life, there are some boring, stupid, an wierd things going on.... stupid things like a Job, wiered things like a girl friend Children.....(I have 2 sons ) other things to do, but, as far as I can say, the issue reported with the Cybervision 64/3D are on a good way to be fixed! Dragging is actually working in all depth 8 16 and 32 bit modes, oversized screens scroll very smoothly and an issue with the Mousepointer is also fixed actually. Now we are working on this videoOverlay-thing (what is it good for on CV 64/3D?) but we will do the job, be sure Regards Harald Last edited by Rotzloeffel; 17 November 2020 at 19:17. |
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17 November 2020, 20:58 | #100 |
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This sounds good Harald!
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