Franken-A3640-060 project-Anybody Game? - Page 5

SpeedGeek · 07 October 2014, 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by alenppc

No, I gave up on that since I can't find GALs/PALs that work reliably with my programmers, and I have two of them by now. The Chinese ones they sell on ebay are crap, and I can't get the new ATF ones from Digikey to work with my programmers.

Well, if the Chinese programmers on ebay can't handle a simple Lattice GAL or it's Atmel equivalent then what good are they? If these devices are specified in the device list then you may have a defective programmer.

If you can't find anyone in Canada to program your GALs or ATFs, I will offer to do it for you for the cost of postage to Canada (approx. $6 First Class mail via USPS). But I have no idea what Canada Post charges to get them to USA?

protek · 08 October 2014, 08:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by alenppc

OK, so I built the board. It is pretty amazing, works "out of the box" on the A3640!

Here some pics of the assembled adapter

Nice work!

Can you elaborate a bit about the sockets you used? From the pics I see that you have one 060 and 040 socket but is there one or two 040 sockets? It's been a bit unclear, whether you have to have one or two sockets/layers of pins on the lower board?

alenppc · 08 October 2014, 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by protek

Nice work!

Can you elaborate a bit about the sockets you used? From the pics I see that you have one 060 and 040 socket but is there one or two 040 sockets? It's been a bit unclear, whether you have to have one or two sockets/layers of pins on the lower board?

I used 1x68060 and 2x68040 sockets. The reason I used two '040 sockets is that the voltage regulator is too tall for one socket design. On the upper 68040 socket, you need to carve the inside part with a knife in order to accomodate the extra inner pins from the 68060, or you can use a pin strip instead of an actual socket, I just thought that using a real socket would be easier.

This pic shows the two sockets nested (before I carved inner side of the upper one):

protek · 09 October 2014, 06:08

Thanks! I'll probably make mine completely fro pin strips. I've just ordered the rest of the components but I've been contemplating between the sockets and the pin strips.

My A3640 has been modded for overclocking so I'm going to try my 66 MHz 060 at its nominal rate.

What kind of cooling is needed for the 060? I've understood that these should actually run cooler than 040s.

protek · 09 October 2014, 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpeedGeek

SysInfo (AKA MisInfo) is not a reliable benchmark program. Would you trust a program which gives bogus MHz ratings, uses a small cache based MIPS benchmark, and 9 out of 10 times reports N/A for Ramsey and Gary on the A3000?

But no other program gives you the red performance bar.

What about SysInfo 4.0? Does it have the same limitations/flaws/shortcomings as the older versions?

NMI · 09 October 2014, 14:48

SysInfo 4.0 correctly detects a 68060, but other than that it has exactly the same limitations/flaws/shortcomings as the old version.

The 68060 runs it's core logic at 3.3V instead of 5V as the 68040, so it actually runs cooler at 50MHz than the 040 at 25MHz. So no cooling is required unless you overclock it.

alenppc · 09 October 2014, 14:56

I am having a lot of problems running the LC060 version of the CPU. The problem is that seemingly once loaded, the p5 68060 libraries apparently indicate that the FPU is present even though it isn't so a lot of software crashes trying to use the FPU - one example is SysInfo 4 - it detects an FPU which is clearly not there. If you attempt to run tests, it will attempt to test the FPU and crash.

Considering my system is also riddled with FPU compatible libriaries from the 68040 I keep getting system freezes. If I boot from a regular 3.1 floppy though, the system is stable.

In order to confirm that the issue wasn't with my motherboard, I put back the 68040 and everything was fine.

I also tried using the full 68060: as expected, the system won't boot, it gets into a constant crash+reboot loop. So I think we need to find a patching solution to allow the full 68060 to work.

Despite the slow memory interface, running the A3640 with a 68060 as opposed to 68040, the speed difference is incredible.

NMI · 09 October 2014, 15:19

The P5 68060 libraries aren't the best ones to use when you run a LC.
Thomas Richters Mu libraries ( http://aminet.net/package/util/sys/Mu680x0Libs.lha ) seems to work better for me.

But that won't stop programs that simply assumes that a FPU exist when they find a 68060 from crashing the system. Like Sysinfo.
I suppose that is something you have to live with when you use a 68LC060, you just have to avoid the programs that tries to use the non-existing FPU.

SysSpeed correctly identifies the lack of FPU and don't perform any FPU tests, use that instead of SysInfo.

SpeedGeek · 09 October 2014, 15:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by protek

But no other program gives you the red performance bar.

What about SysInfo 4.0? Does it have the same limitations/flaws/shortcomings as the older versions?

IMHO the red performance bar just isn't worth it...

P.S. I may delete this image soon because it really bugs me!

alenppc · 09 October 2014, 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by NMI

The P5 68060 libraries aren't the best ones to use when you run a LC.
Thomas Richters Mu libraries ( http://aminet.net/package/util/sys/Mu680x0Libs.lha ) seems to work better for me.

Ah excellent! I am going to try, thanks!!

alenppc · 10 October 2014, 15:23

Update: MuLibs have definitely improved stability. I am however still getting freezes when I interact with workbench icons: opening windows etc. If I use the computer entirely from shell, then it works normally - no freezes, so I am suspecting icon.library issues. Another culprit might be P96 settings... ah the joys of 68060

alenppc · 13 October 2014, 04:08

Alright, I have now spent a lot of time on this and it seems I was a bit hasty in claiming that the adapter works with the 3640. That is, it seems to work to a certain degree but something is off. I built 2 of these adapters now and both have the same issue while using the LC060 cpu, and I tested this on 2 motherboards and 2 different 3640s, and can reproduce the problem 100% of the time.

The Amiga will boot fine, but inevitably freeze on workbench, usually while interacting with the GUI. To reproduce the problem, boot, open a window and start selecting multiple icons, one by one. Inevitably, the system will lock up. This occurs on OS3.1 and 3.9 as well.

Interestingly enough, boot a game from floppy (I used Jurassic Park AGA which runs fine on 68060), and you can play for hours with no lockups.
Tried changing clock to 66 MHz with CLOCK90 mod, in order to let the CPU run at nominal frequency, the system boots (barely) but it's very unstable, locks up even faster.

Put back in the 68040 and everything runs fine.

At this point I am clueless as to what is the cause of this problem. The 3640 cards are not updated to 3.2 GALs since, as I mentioned before, I can't source chips that I can program.

So far I am still unsuccessful in patching the kickstart so I cannot try to see if a full 68060 would make a difference. It may also be that the MMU on these EC-labeled chips is defective. So unless someone has ideas on how to solve this problem, looks like this is not really usable. It was definitely fun to build, but it looks like this is where the project ends for me.

protek · 13 October 2014, 07:04

My A3640 has been upgraded to 3.2. Once I get all the components and the adapter built, I'll report back.

SpeedGeek · 13 October 2014, 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by alenppc

Alright, I have now spent a lot of time on this and it seems I was a bit hasty in claiming that the adapter works with the 3640. That is, it seems to work to a certain degree but something is off. I built 2 of these adapters now and both have the same issue while using the LC060 cpu, and I tested this on 2 motherboards and 2 different 3640s, and can reproduce the problem 100% of the time.

The Amiga will boot fine, but inevitably freeze on workbench, usually while interacting with the GUI. To reproduce the problem, boot, open a window and start selecting multiple icons, one by one. Inevitably, the system will lock up. This occurs on OS3.1 and 3.9 as well.

I never considered the LC/EC 060 to have much practical use (other than testing the adapter without a custom Kickstart or Zorro2 board). The problem is you have a limited choice of 68060.libraries which support these variants and may not even fully support them. But I would probably try the Apollo LC060 support software first before any others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alenppc

Interestingly enough, boot a game from floppy (I used Jurassic Park AGA which runs fine on 68060), and you can play for hours with no lockups.
Tried changing clock to 66 MHz with CLOCK90 mod, in order to let the CPU run at nominal frequency, the system boots (barely) but it's very unstable, locks up even faster.

Put back in the 68040 and everything runs fine.

At this point I am clueless as to what is the cause of this problem. The 3640 cards are not updated to 3.2 GALs since, as I mentioned before, I can't source chips that I can program.

I have warned people repeatedly that this adapter was not designed for 040 accelerators which fail to provide skew compensation between BCLK/PCLK so your lucky if it works all with 25/50 MHz clocks. But you ignore this warning and still expect it to work with 33/66 MHz clocks?

Quote:

Originally Posted by alenppc

So far I am still unsuccessful in patching the kickstart so I cannot try to see if a full 68060 would make a difference. It may also be that the MMU on these EC-labeled chips is defective. So unless someone has ideas on how to solve this problem, looks like this is not really usable. It was definitely fun to build, but it looks like this is where the project ends for me.

The last email I received from Cosmos was:

Ok, working fine now !

Merci !

Maybe he's been to busy or just forgot to update his exec patches?

alenppc · 14 October 2014, 00:53

K, so I got the bug fixed & patched exec.library from cosmos, was able to compile & burn the new rom and install a full 68060. The freezing issues are now gone, so it seems the LC060 and Amiga don't play too well together.

doubledecca · 14 October 2014, 18:04

Hi,

Where can I buy the PCBs, I can solder really well.

Regards

Derek

alexh · 14 October 2014, 21:22

There is a 2nd build of the MK1 PCB's going ahead now and I think you might still be able to purchase

http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?64890

The MK2 version I think is sold out.

http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?65526

(P.S. If there is really any difference between the MK1 and MK2 PCB layouts I don't really know)

alenppc · 15 October 2014, 05:14

One more suggestion, when soldering do not do like I did. I thought that snipping the non-connected pins on the bottom of the 68060 socket would be enough to prevent contact, it wasn't. Remove the middle layer 68040 socket pins directly or use pin strips, it works better. Learned that the hard way.

So far did some software tests, and despite slow ram Quake 1 68k is playable

and also the latest netsurf build is also usable.

jbenam · 15 October 2014, 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

There is a 2nd build of the MK1 PCB's going ahead now and I think you might still be able to purchase

http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?64890

The MK2 version I think is sold out.

http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?65526

(P.S. If there is really any difference between the MK1 and MK2 PCB layouts I don't really know)

From what I gather the MK2 version had some components moved around to avoid problems with the 040 socket?

Anyway, too bad I missed the MK2 version kit. I definitely look forward to build one for my A3640. I even have an 71E41J sitting in the drawer

Does anyone know the cost? Looks like the OP removed the price after he sold out.

MoreBITS · 08 November 2014, 16:38

Hi Alenppc,

Could you give a quick update on how this mod is working for you?

I am planning to build up a couple boards. I still need to buy the CPU, but I am leaning toward the MC68EC060RC

I have been told that since it doesn't have FPU or MMU it doesn't require modifications to kickstart etc to run in the amiga.

However from this thread I am given the impression that I will miss the FPU and or MMU function.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alenppc

One more suggestion, when soldering do not do like I did. I thought that snipping the non-connected pins on the bottom of the 68060 socket would be enough to prevent contact, it wasn't. Remove the middle layer 68040 socket pins directly or use pin strips, it works better. Learned that the hard way.

So far did some software tests, and despite slow ram Quake 1 68k is playable

and also the latest netsurf build is also usable.

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09 October 2014, 06:08	#84
protek Amiga hobbyist Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Oulu, Finland Posts: 250	Thanks! I'll probably make mine completely fro pin strips. I've just ordered the rest of the components but I've been contemplating between the sockets and the pin strips. My A3640 has been modded for overclocking so I'm going to try my 66 MHz 060 at its nominal rate. What kind of cooling is needed for the 060? I've understood that these should actually run cooler than 040s.

09 October 2014, 14:48	#86
NMI Registered User Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Sweden Posts: 43	SysInfo 4.0 correctly detects a 68060, but other than that it has exactly the same limitations/flaws/shortcomings as the old version. The 68060 runs it's core logic at 3.3V instead of 5V as the 68040, so it actually runs cooler at 50MHz than the 040 at 25MHz. So no cooling is required unless you overclock it.

09 October 2014, 14:56	#87
alenppc Registered User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Canada Age: 44 Posts: 910	I am having a lot of problems running the LC060 version of the CPU. The problem is that seemingly once loaded, the p5 68060 libraries apparently indicate that the FPU is present even though it isn't so a lot of software crashes trying to use the FPU - one example is SysInfo 4 - it detects an FPU which is clearly not there. If you attempt to run tests, it will attempt to test the FPU and crash. Considering my system is also riddled with FPU compatible libriaries from the 68040 I keep getting system freezes. If I boot from a regular 3.1 floppy though, the system is stable. In order to confirm that the issue wasn't with my motherboard, I put back the 68040 and everything was fine. I also tried using the full 68060: as expected, the system won't boot, it gets into a constant crash+reboot loop. So I think we need to find a patching solution to allow the full 68060 to work. Despite the slow memory interface, running the A3640 with a 68060 as opposed to 68040, the speed difference is incredible.

09 October 2014, 15:19	#88
NMI Registered User Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Sweden Posts: 43	The P5 68060 libraries aren't the best ones to use when you run a LC. Thomas Richters Mu libraries ( http://aminet.net/package/util/sys/Mu680x0Libs.lha ) seems to work better for me. But that won't stop programs that simply assumes that a FPU exist when they find a 68060 from crashing the system. Like Sysinfo. I suppose that is something you have to live with when you use a 68LC060, you just have to avoid the programs that tries to use the non-existing FPU. SysSpeed correctly identifies the lack of FPU and don't perform any FPU tests, use that instead of SysInfo.

10 October 2014, 15:23	#91
alenppc Registered User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Canada Age: 44 Posts: 910	Update: MuLibs have definitely improved stability. I am however still getting freezes when I interact with workbench icons: opening windows etc. If I use the computer entirely from shell, then it works normally - no freezes, so I am suspecting icon.library issues. Another culprit might be P96 settings... ah the joys of 68060

13 October 2014, 04:08	#92
alenppc Registered User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Canada Age: 44 Posts: 910	Alright, I have now spent a lot of time on this and it seems I was a bit hasty in claiming that the adapter works with the 3640. That is, it seems to work to a certain degree but something is off. I built 2 of these adapters now and both have the same issue while using the LC060 cpu, and I tested this on 2 motherboards and 2 different 3640s, and can reproduce the problem 100% of the time. The Amiga will boot fine, but inevitably freeze on workbench, usually while interacting with the GUI. To reproduce the problem, boot, open a window and start selecting multiple icons, one by one. Inevitably, the system will lock up. This occurs on OS3.1 and 3.9 as well. Interestingly enough, boot a game from floppy (I used Jurassic Park AGA which runs fine on 68060), and you can play for hours with no lockups. Tried changing clock to 66 MHz with CLOCK90 mod, in order to let the CPU run at nominal frequency, the system boots (barely) but it's very unstable, locks up even faster. Put back in the 68040 and everything runs fine. At this point I am clueless as to what is the cause of this problem. The 3640 cards are not updated to 3.2 GALs since, as I mentioned before, I can't source chips that I can program. So far I am still unsuccessful in patching the kickstart so I cannot try to see if a full 68060 would make a difference. It may also be that the MMU on these EC-labeled chips is defective. So unless someone has ideas on how to solve this problem, looks like this is not really usable. It was definitely fun to build, but it looks like this is where the project ends for me.

13 October 2014, 07:04	#93
protek Amiga hobbyist Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Oulu, Finland Posts: 250	My A3640 has been upgraded to 3.2. Once I get all the components and the adapter built, I'll report back.

14 October 2014, 00:53	#95
alenppc Registered User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Canada Age: 44 Posts: 910	K, so I got the bug fixed & patched exec.library from cosmos, was able to compile & burn the new rom and install a full 68060. The freezing issues are now gone, so it seems the LC060 and Amiga don't play too well together.

14 October 2014, 18:04	#96
doubledecca Registered User Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Runcorn Posts: 25	Hi, Where can I buy the PCBs, I can solder really well. Regards Derek

14 October 2014, 21:22	#97
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,461	There is a 2nd build of the MK1 PCB's going ahead now and I think you might still be able to purchase http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?64890 The MK2 version I think is sold out. http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?65526 (P.S. If there is really any difference between the MK1 and MK2 PCB layouts I don't really know)

15 October 2014, 05:14	#98
alenppc Registered User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Canada Age: 44 Posts: 910	One more suggestion, when soldering do not do like I did. I thought that snipping the non-connected pins on the bottom of the 68060 socket would be enough to prevent contact, it wasn't. Remove the middle layer 68040 socket pins directly or use pin strips, it works better. Learned that the hard way. So far did some software tests, and despite slow ram Quake 1 68k is playable and also the latest netsurf build is also usable.

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