PowerCopy Pro

[Retro1234]

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

RNWARP => not working when writing without drive motor control.....

What is motor control? Basicly this is not possible without extra hardware?

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by Boo Boo

What is motor control? Basicly this is not possible without extra hardware?

Motor control is to be able to slow down the drive motor so that you can write more data to the track than you would normally.

Some hardware devices manipulate the drive speed to be able to duplicate more copy protected formats.

[zipper]

Syncro Express for example.

[mr.vince]

No, to my knowledge Synchro Express does not do that. Neither does Cyclone. I know that at least Cyclone tried to by pulsing the drive's motor very fast (pulse width modulation). There are mods for original A1010 that add a trim potentiometer and enable the user to adjust the speed of the drive.

Standard drives used in third party external drives for the Amiga usually came with more modern, modded PC-style drives. These drives have motor speed control built into the drive logic (usually a small IC doing this). So the moment you try and alter the speed, the logic will detect the speed change and adjust itself. So you are getting nowhere...

The only copier, to my knowledge, that actually changed the drive speed was Sybil by Utilities Unlimited of Oregon. To be more precise it did not change drive speed, but connected to the parallel port and the genlock port of the Amiga. This allowed the software to change the Amiga's clock (and display frequency - so this was used best with the CRT turned off to avoid damage) in relation to the fixed speed drives. A faster Amiga meant shorter bitcells and therefore more space for information on a single track.

Coming back to PowerCopy I think it does the same Synchro Express, Cyclone and others do. It shifts the data from the internal drive to the external one. I am further assuming that it has some kind of circuitry to correct bitcell timings to allow for precompensation of the data written. At least to some extent. But there is no way PowerCopy can adjust drive speed. Except for pulsing (pulse width modulation of the motor on line), but this works rather ok than excellent and will add jitter to the data written.

In the end, protections were made the way they were made because the Amiga was not capable of duping them properly. Trace machines, used for writing the masters at replicators, can easily write any bitcell width.

[Retro1234]

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

Motor control is to be able to slow down the drive motor so that you can write more data to the track than you would normally.

Some hardware devices manipulate the drive speed to be able to duplicate more copy protected formats.

Thanks for the info

Originally Posted by mr.vince

No, to my knowledge Synchro Express does not do that. Neither does Cyclone. I know that at least Cyclone tried to by pulsing the drive's motor very fast (pulse width modulation). There are mods for original A1010 that add a trim potentiometer and enable the user to adjust the speed of the drive.

Standard drives used in third party external drives for the Amiga usually came with more modern, modded PC-style drives. These drives have motor speed control built into the drive logic (usually a small IC doing this). So the moment you try and alter the speed, the logic will detect the speed change and adjust itself. So you are getting nowhere...

The only copier, to my knowledge, that actually changed the drive speed was Sybil by Utilities Unlimited of Oregon. To be more precise it did not change drive speed, but connected to the parallel port and the genlock port of the Amiga. This allowed the software to change the Amiga's clock (and display frequency - so this was used best with the CRT turned off to avoid damage) in relation to the fixed speed drives. A faster Amiga meant shorter bitcells and therefore more space for information on a single track.

Coming back to PowerCopy I think it does the same Synchro Express, Cyclone and others do. It shifts the data from the internal drive to the external one. I am further assuming that it has some kind of circuitry to correct bitcell timings to allow for precompensation of the data written. At least to some extent. But there is no way PowerCopy can adjust drive speed. Except for pulsing (pulse width modulation of the motor on line), but this works rather ok than excellent and will add jitter to the data written.

In the end, protections were made the way they were made because the Amiga was not capable of duping them properly. Trace machines, used for writing the masters at replicators, can easily write any bitcell width.

What about Backup Buddy - manaul speed control. http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?p=169598#post169598

Its still unclear what hardware would be needed with RNWarp

I started with a MAC II copier which I belive is a clone of SuperAmi Card II and also had the Power Computer Blizzard and have to say I backup a number of games with success.

[mr.vince]

Originally Posted by Boo Boo

What about Backup Buddy - manaul speed control. http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?p=169598#post169598

All it says is that you have to adjust the drive speed and the program will tell you how fast or slow it has to be. It does not say Backup Buddy will do this. Maybe it's just a modded drive.

Whenever it comes to changing bitcell size you need to adjust drive speed. Or change the cell itself. Which you can't on Amiga.

[dlfrsilver]

So can someone post or make a tut that would allow to change an amiga drive motor speed ? I found no schematics about such a thing.

[prowler]

BlueAchenar experimented with pulse width modulation to control the speed of the floppy drive in his BAWarp disk imager program, but was unsuccessful. Details of this project are in this thread:
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=42048

[Supamax]

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

No. F-29 Retaliator IS Copylock protected, but the format of the Copylock track itself is different to the usual Copylock.

for instance, in every usual circumstance, if you try to copy Copylock, it will show up as an error.

The F-29 Retaliator Copylock doesn't show up at all when copying the original, it appears as a normal dos track.

Thanks mate, all is clear now

Originally Posted by mr.vince

Coming back to PowerCopy I think it does the same Synchro Express, Cyclone and others do. It shifts the data from the internal drive to the external one. I am further assuming that it has some kind of circuitry to correct bitcell timings to allow for precompensation of the data written. At least to some extent. But there is no way PowerCopy can adjust drive speed. Except for pulsing (pulse width modulation of the motor on line), but this works rather ok than excellent and will add jitter to the data written.

This explains why you could (with Synchro Express or similar) duplicate i.e. the original disks of Dragon's Lair (I successfully did it), but not (or having difficulties) duplicate the 1st generation copy in order to obtain a 2nd generation copy.
Every "n+1"-generation copy was worst than its "n"-generation parent.

It was some sort of "analogue" copy instead of "digital"...

[kipper2k]

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

So can someone post or make a tut that would allow to change an amiga drive motor speed ? I found no schematics about such a thing.

I remember when Dragons lair came out and i did experiments with drive speed to try to slow them down. The drives i had all had an automatic sensor control that continually maintained the speed despite my best efforts to manipulate the speed. I got lucky on one attempt and managed to get disk 1 working but was never able to get a good copy of the entire game. Funny thing was, i never really cared about the game... it was all about doing something i wasn't supposed to do. I think i spent more hoursdoing that kind of stuff than playing the games

[Codetapper]

I have found the "hidden" copylock type used on the following games:

5th Gear
Battle Valley
Cabal
Castle Master
Cloud Kingdoms
Crossbow
Cyberball (SPS 1446)
F-29 Retaliator
Gravity
Guardian Angel
Hard Drivin'
Ivanhoe
Photon Storm
Pyramax
Rainbow Islands (SPS 26)
Rick Dangerous
Toobin
Warhead

[Don_Adan]

Originally Posted by Supamax

But he would need PowerCopy Pro sources... and they are not available (the author denied their distribution)

PowerCopyPro sources are not necessary for good coders like StingRay to make some changes/updates. Perhaps he resourced this program to crack.

In most cases original sources are useles for most of coders. A lots of Amiga sources are available as free (XAD, EP2 etc), and no one make updates/changes.

Originally Posted by Supamax

Do you mean Marauder II is able to slowdown the drive by software? Cool!!!!

(I suppose it uses some sort of software PWM)

I don't know, I never tested this program.

[Supamax]

Originally Posted by kipper2k

it was all about doing something i wasn't supposed to do. I think i spent more hoursdoing that kind of stuff than playing the games

Eh... I do understand you!

[mr.vince]

Originally Posted by Supamax

This explains why you could (with Synchro Express or similar) duplicate i.e. the original disks of Dragon's Lair (I successfully did it), but not (or having difficulties) duplicate the 1st generation copy in order to obtain a 2nd generation copy.
Every "n+1"-generation copy was worst than its "n"-generation parent.

It was some sort of "analogue" copy instead of "digital"...

Exactly. You copy all imperfections happening when writing the data originally (bitshift, wobble, media surface irregularities, etc.) and add them to the next gen. Digital copies usually are refreshed (e.g. when using X-Copy) by regenrating MFM from data read to memory.

The way these copies work also means there are protections that can not be duplicated. E.g. weak bits, flux reversal suppression or everything else that deals with writing the data in a special way that will come back differently when reading. CopyLock AmigaDOS is one of these protections. A normaly copier will only see an ADOS track, nothing else. The protection is completely hidden in the gap area.

[Don_Adan]

Originally Posted by Supamax

This would be very hard (let's say impossible) to do. StingRay would have to modify PowerCopy without having sources, hints, etc.



REALLY? I have a very vague memory of it, but I thought it was a fake (copying DL without hardware like Cyclone etc.)...
Do you know where can I find that version of Marauder II which is able to do that? I have Dragon's Lair original, I can test it.

Here is Dragon's Lair copier.

[Supamax]

Originally Posted by Don_Adan

Hers is Dragon's Lair copier.

Thanks!
Ehm.. could you (or somebody) kindly extract it and upload it in a more common format (.zip, .rar etc.) ?

[Josh]

That's possible


Cheers Josh

[Supamax]

Originally Posted by Josh

That's possible

Cheers Josh

Thanks

EDIT:
REQUIREMENTS:

1. THE ABILITY TO BE ABLE TO SLOW DOWN YOUR DRIVES

2. CV-PARAMETER COPIER (OPTIONAL)

3. TWO DRIVES

[prowler]

Originally Posted by Supamax

REQUIREMENTS:

1. THE ABILITY TO BE ABLE TO SLOW DOWN YOUR DRIVES

USE MARAUDER II. Do you have a copy?

[Supamax]

Originally Posted by prowler

USE MARAUDER II. Do you have a copy?

Yes but... Marauder II is not able to slow down the drive.
The ability to slow down the drive is still mandatory ...

Wait! Do you mean "Use Marauder II ONLY" in order to make a working copy of Dragon's Lair?
But, doing so, the copy will be a patched one, not 1:1.