What does the Amiga community need?

[Daedalus]

Fair enough; but unless you already have Zorro cards lying around that you don't need, you'll likely need significantly more than $100 to do anything with a Zorro-II expansion. And if you do have a nice Zorro card around with no machine to use it in, selling that might cover most or all of the cost of the Mediator, leaving you with that $100 to spend on PCI cards.

[Bruce Abbott]

Originally Posted by wiser3

A few questions.

1. Would you prefer new things aimed at:
a. low spec Amiga's (OCS, OS1.3)
b. high spec Amiga's (AGA, 030+)
c. futuristic Amiga's (Vampire)

High spec/futuristic Amigas are getting plenty already.

I would like to see more stuff for low spec Amigas, but that should include the A1200 and CD32 (without high-spec accelerator cards).

2. If a new Amiga website was made what content could it have that current ones don't?

Other websites seem to concentrate on OS4 and high spec Amigas, or games. What's missing is more 'serious' stuff for the Amigas most people had 'back in the day', when magazines provided such content. IOW, I want to see the website that would have been made for the Amiga if the average user had web access back then.

3. Does an Amiga related website HAVE to work in Amiga browsers?

Yes. It must work with IBrowse, and look good too (even on a 640x512 8 color screen). And no crappy Javascript, SSL or other stuff that slows it down for no good reason.

Understand that doing so could hamper the functionality and look of the website.

You mean bogged down with useless crap that even my 2.8GHz PC struggles with? With a 'modern' look that you can't figure out what is clickable and what isn't? No thanks.

Originally Posted by Bruce Abbott

High spec/futuristic Amigas are getting plenty already.

I would like to see more stuff for low spec Amigas, but that should include the A1200 and CD32 (without high-spec accelerator cards).

Other websites seem to concentrate on OS4 and high spec Amigas, or games. What's missing is more 'serious' stuff for the Amigas most people had 'back in the day', when magazines provided such content. IOW, I want to see the website that would have been made for the Amiga if the average user had web access back then.

Yes. It must work with IBrowse, and look good too (even on a 640x512 8 color screen). And no crappy Javascript, SSL or other stuff that slows it down for no good reason.

You mean bogged down with useless crap that even my 2.8GHz PC struggles with? With a 'modern' look that you can't figure out what is clickable and what isn't? No thanks.

I believe such a website exists: aminet. It is what you describe.
New serious software is no longer developed, because there is no money in it.

[eXeler0]

Originally Posted by wiser3

I have some extra time and am looking for a way to contribute to the Amiga community.


I don't want to list my special talents, or lack thereof, just let me know what you think the community needs. If i choose not to do it maybe someone else will.

A cleaning up of the Alien Breed 3D II The Killing Grounds sources so that they become usable

[Bruce Abbott]

Originally Posted by Syntrax

I believe such a website exists: aminet. It is what you describe.

No it isn't, not by a long shot.

About Aminet

Aminet is a set of interconnected WWW and FTP servers hosting freely distributable Amiga software. Established in 1992, Aminet belongs to the Internet's oldest software repositories

Imagine a magazine like Amiga Format with a cover CD full of PD and shareware programs - but without the magazine itself. That's what you are suggesting. I say it's not enough.

In the 80's and 90's when the Amiga was current technology, many owners read magazines not just to get the latest news and game reviews, but also to learn about how to get more out their machines, how to write programs in various languages, make music, create artwork, use DOS commands and scripts etc. Today those people are mostly part of the 'older generation', while kids that just played games on their Amigas are now adults who missed out on all that 'serious' stuff. How to fill that gap? You could say 'just read the old magazines' but pdf scans are not that friendly, and besides we have something that does the job better now - html.

Today people might also want to learn how to use their Amigas with more modern technology or stuff that has been developed for it more recently. Some of that is scattered around in various discussion groups as 'stickies', but not in properly written articles like the old magazines had.

New serious software is no longer developed, because there is no money in it.

When was there ever any money in it?

But I am not talking about producing new serious software. There are many existing applications that are now abandonware or 'free', which current Amiga owners could get some enjoyment out of using - even if just to play around with like we did 'back in the day'. How many of us have recently made music using a tracker program, or produced an animation in DPaint, or rendered a raytraced scene with Sculpt 3D, or written an ARexx program, or created a document using Final Writer (which BTW is still being developed)? For those who haven't (or have forgotten how) wouldn't you like to read a nice article that leads you though it step by step, and perhaps has some interesting related sidebars as well?

[masteripper]

Well personally i believe that the Amiga community needs an inverstor or a serious community effort to
A. clear out the copyright issues...there can be one and only one....regarding sources and open sourcing..is a different discussion...too many "open source" are just -- fake -- and even if they are trully open source its so overwhelming for small developers groups to deal with them ...... hint : Linux + Kodi
B. Some serious development to produce an Amithlon variant either for x86 or for ARM platform to clear out bugs and include whatever notable contributions has being made over the years....major issue Internet browsing.
C. Some development to bring some old abandoned software up to date with modern implementation...the sources are out there...in many cases they don't care
D. Some development to properly setup software that seem to be "resilient" to both time and performance...so they can be used as they are
E. Some development to bring e.g. top 20 games to the highest possible quality ..replace graphics mainly
F. contact some manufacturer and produce a serious amount of machines ready to work with all the bells and whistle for a reasonable price...if its ARM a $99 should be enough...if its x86 probably $199 ...pretty much as Raspberry...for all these plenty of documentation for developers to start "playing"
G. a clever UI that will be both retro - friendly and modern -friendly.

They are not going to happen.....

[Bruce Abbott]

Originally Posted by masteripper

B. Some serious development to produce an Amithlon variant either for x86 or for ARM platform...

E. Some development to bring e.g. top 20 games to the highest possible quality ..replace graphics mainly...

F. contact some manufacturer and produce a serious amount of machines ready to work with all the bells and whistle... ARM... x86...

G. a clever UI that will be both retro - friendly and modern -friendly.

They are not going to happen.....

And why should they? "Games of the highest possible quality" running on ARM or x86 machines with "all the bells and whistles" and "a clever UI" may be a worthwhile goal, but has little to do with the Amiga.

A. clear out the copyright issues...there can be one and only one....

AmigaOS 3.1.4 is readily available, as are all the earlier versions, and OS 3.2 is in development. So in practice copyright issues aren't a big problem.

regarding sources and open sourcing..is a different discussion...too many "open source" are just -- fake -- and even if they are trully open source its so overwhelming for small developers groups to deal with them ......

Small developer groups have more 'open' source to crib from than ever, yet it's still not enough? Some things never change...

[Charles Littell]

I would be happy with a good source of 68060 chips and a decent accelerator card not one that is promised some time in the future. I would also like to see a modern keyboard replacement for the Amiga 1200.

[YouKnowWho]

Originally Posted by Daedalus

The cost difference between that and, say, a Warp 1260, would probably not be that great. The complexity in the development will take up much of the cost, and the price difference between the '030 and '060 isn't all that huge so long as you don't want a crazy expensive Rev. 6 '060. So you're much better off going for the Warp when it's available.


Because such add-ons have long since been obsoleted by the Mediator, which offers similar functionality with much cheaper add-on cards, is faster than Zorro-II, and is still available commercially available.

To the first point, I'll say to you this...I wanted to give them my money. I emailed them. I got no reply. I don't think they are serious about selling this. Perhaps it is the usual Amiga community fetish "I have it and you don't" ...I don't know. 060 is nice, but WARP 1260 with the graphic card will be a lot more than 68030. Flicker Fixer and 90s era graphic chip is hardly an issue today, plus throw an affordable 68030 and RAM and it's a sweet upgrade and all games work still.

Zorro II single slot because really the only thing you can't add easily to a 1200 is a 24 bit graphic card. You can throw in everything else somehow, but not a graphic card.

[Daedalus]

Originally Posted by YouKnowWho

To the first point, I'll say to you this...I wanted to give them my money. I emailed them. I got no reply. I don't think they are serious about selling this. Perhaps it is the usual Amiga community fetish "I have it and you don't" ...I don't know. 060 is nice, but WARP 1260 with the graphic card will be a lot more than 68030. Flicker Fixer and 90s era graphic chip is hardly an issue today, plus throw an affordable 68030 and RAM and it's a sweet upgrade and all games work still.

You're not really understanding the situation at all. Why is a '90s era graphics chip not an issue? Care to point out a reliable source for hundreds of new ones? And it won't make development any cheaper, so you're paying about the same amount for inferior performance. It's been explained to you repeatedly, but doesn't seem to have sunken in yet: the Warp 1260 isn't available yet. But it's far, far closer to that point than any imaginary '030+graphics card that you can think up, and it will be available soon enough.

Zorro II single slot because really the only thing you can't add easily to a 1200 is a 24 bit graphic card. You can throw in everything else somehow, but not a graphic card.

I have a graphics card in my A1200, attached using a Mediator. You can buy a Mediator and graphics card *today* for your A1200.

[Etze]

Originally Posted by Bruce Abbott

When was there ever any money in it?

Maybe we should ask Christian Bauer (Shapeshifter), Stefan Stuntz (MUI), Martin Huttenloher (MagicWB), Dietmar Eilert (GoldED/CubicIDE). I guess these packages sold thousands of times. They "just" had the right idea at the right time. Sure, today they wouldn't sell nearly that much.



Francois Lionet (Amos) once wrote on Facebook:

Francois Lionet
Gruppenadministrator
You can ask for figures, there is no shame! And I will tell you!
I did make good money... During STOS, around 60.000 € / year ( I convert Francs to Euros directly, as today in France things cost the same in Euros than what they used to in Francs at that time)...
STOS and AMOS 1.3 raised that to around 100.000 on the first year and lower the next year with STOS sales declining... But my best year was AMOS Professional.... Initial sales were fantastic as many people were waiting for it in UK and rushed to buy it... Could not believe my eyes when I saw a check of more than 150.000€... it payed for a large part of our house... and cool holidays!
This is a lot of course, not enough to buy a Porsche! (would not have anyway )
Europress was very happy to see me each time I came to Manchester... My royalties were 15%, a simple multiplication will give you how much cash they made, so yeah they were happy! And me too each time I came to see them, Richard and all the team...

I dare to say: "Yes, there WAS much money in it!".

[Hercules]

New keycaps for my A1200. They always sell out too quickly.

[wiser3]

Originally Posted by hercules

new keycaps for my a1200. They always sell out too quickly.

+1

[YouKnowWho]

Originally Posted by Daedalus

You're not really understanding the situation at all. Why is a '90s era graphics chip not an issue? Care to point out a reliable source for hundreds of new ones? And it won't make development any cheaper, so you're paying about the same amount for inferior performance. It's been explained to you repeatedly, but doesn't seem to have sunken in yet: the Warp 1260 isn't available yet. But it's far, far closer to that point than any imaginary '030+graphics card that you can think up, and it will be available soon enough.


I have a graphics card in my A1200, attached using a Mediator. You can buy a Mediator and graphics card *today* for your A1200.

I beg to differ. It appears someone is working on a proper solution to a problem I describe, and I'm certainly waiting with money in hand. I wonder if it will beat the WARP to market? Considering it's been a year for an email to be replied by CS team, I'm betting yes, yes they will. By the time they get the WARP to market there won't by any 68060 CPUs left out there to buy.

I don't want a mediator because it is huge, and requires a tower. I don't want my 1200 in a tower. I want my 1200 to look like a 1200. Checker 1500 is as big as I want my 1200 to be. Can't use mediator in a Checker because the card slots are upright. I bought the checker and actually in the end I think it will be a PC that looks like an Amiga instead of a 1200.

Ideally, I don't want my 1200 to be any different than Commodore designed it to be. I find the 1200 to be one of the prettiest computers ever made. Really, of all the Amigas the prettiest are the 1000 for obvious reasons, 1200 because it is the prettiest and most competent wedge format they made, and CDTV for pure sexiness are THE best design efforts from Commodore on the Amiga. Reinventing the A1200 design by towering it is...sacrilege. At least the WARP boys got that part right.

[kriz]

Just get a Vampire for your 1200 and you have your internal gfx card

[YouKnowWho]

Originally Posted by kriz

Just get a Vampire for your 1200 and you have your internal gfx card

FPGA? I have a MISTer, gives you all those other killer machines.

More machines/cores > Vampire. Any day. Every day.

FPGA wasted on just 1 single function is...well, wasted.

[Northgrove]

CD-ROM drives.

[robinsonb5]

Originally Posted by Northgrove

CD-ROM drives.

Gotek equivalent for CDROM images!

[Daedalus]

Originally Posted by YouKnowWho

I beg to differ. It appears someone is working on a proper solution to a problem I describe, and I'm certainly waiting with money in hand.

Ooh, do tell. It can't be the PiStorm with an A1200 bus adaptor, since you want a real CPU. So I wonder what hardware it is that I don't know about...

I wonder if it will beat the WARP to market? Considering it's been a year for an email to be replied by CS team, I'm betting yes, yes they will.

So you were emailing them looking for answers to questions that either couldn't be answered, or for which the answers are already out there? Right... It's all been explained to you before but you don't seem to appreciate it - would you rather these developers spend their free time answering emails of pointless questions, or developing the hardware? I get the impression it's the formet.

By the time they get the WARP to market there won't by any 68060 CPUs left out there to buy.

There are loads of 68060 CPUs out there, just not that many of the coveted rev. 6 chips. I bought an 'LC060 not so long ago for £38, for example.

I don't want a mediator because it is huge, and requires a tower. I don't want my 1200 in a tower. I want my 1200 to look like a 1200.

Ah, I see. You misled me with your request for a Zorro-II adaptor, which would also need a tower case. But it sounds like you know of a secret project to answer your dreams, so you don't need to complain about the actual products that don't.

[YouKnowWho]

Originally Posted by Daedalus

Ooh, do tell. It can't be the PiStorm with an A1200 bus adaptor, since you want a real CPU. So I wonder what hardware it is that I don't know about...

So you were emailing them looking for answers to questions that either couldn't be answered, or for which the answers are already out there? Right... It's all been explained to you before but you don't seem to appreciate it - would you rather these developers spend their free time answering emails of pointless questions, or developing the hardware? I get the impression it's the formet.

There are loads of 68060 CPUs out there, just not that many of the coveted rev. 6 chips. I bought an 'LC060 not so long ago for £38, for example.


Ah, I see. You misled me with your request for a Zorro-II adaptor, which would also need a tower case. But it sounds like you know of a secret project to answer your dreams, so you don't need to complain about the actual products that don't.

Well, if you don't know, you don't know Daedalus. It is fun to find stuff.

CS Labs Warp 1260 boys - they have a website. They should communicate to the masses on status clearly. It would be easy to post a quick text update once a month perhaps, or as needed. So thanks for the excuses, but these boys are a communication disappointment. This one won't fly. Communicate to the masses, or reply to emails - otherwise you're just giving potential customers like me to realize this is not wroth spending money on. They are trying to create heat, gave product out for reviews, videos, and have absolutely nothing to sell with it. Oh well...I've moved on from wanting that product anyway as noted. 68060 is pointless and unnecessary. Like an aero kit on a 1992 Civic.

Full 68060, and the WARP 1260 recommended v6 are coming up to the price of. the WARP itself. Value proposition is starting to be pointless. I said it in another post about 1260 - it's a joke. Like the TF1260 - not possible to have because some baby had a baby tantrum - something along the lines "I have one and you wooooon't!" Like someone said, the scene is fragmented and for the few doing things successfully and professionally the rewards are there to be had.

I was very specific about the Zorro II expansion - stating SINGLE ZORRO II. Such an extension would allow a desktoped 1200 to have a single card and not require a giant tower setup. For example, in a 1500 case, or for those putting 1200s in other relatively slim cases. I almost feel a 1200 mobo in a 128D case would even be able to host that Zorro II slot with a graphic card.