Carmack on Dread or Grind

[TCD]

Originally Posted by Karlos

All it would have taken to get a proper commercial doom port would have been for an Amiga development company to approach id software for a license and ideally something to show it was feasible.

Team 17 did that. They considered to get the license from id to 'convert' what became Alien Breed 3D to an Amiga port of Doom. Apparently the price tag for the license was the problem.

[Tsak]

Originally Posted by Karlos

I'm not sure how rose tinted that view is.

It really had far greater implications than what you might imagine (imho). The Amiga game making scene should have been also dead soon after Commodore's demise but it didn't. And Doom clones played a massive role in this, being the frontrunner releases in the years to come. And after the scene really did reach rock bottom (aka after 2000) it was still held together almost exclusively by the various ongoing Doom port projects (and by that time other fps franchises as well). I still remember a time here at EAB (between 2000 up to around 2014) when you could find almost no new game projects around except said Doom & FPS port projects.

Originally Posted by Karlos

It galvanized a few commercial game developments, sure, but it seems to have had a far greater impact in terms of entitled resentment. SNES got Doom and that made things even worse, especially given that the Amiga was part of the toolchain.

All it would have taken to get a proper commercial doom port would have been for an Amiga development company to approach id software for a license and ideally something to show it was feasible. This is how everyone else did it, but no, Carmack the asshole that denied us doom.

The same asshole that was happy for us to have Quake.

Make it make sense.

Well, I don't know what transpired between then and then. Perhaps ID's structure was different, perhaps they didn't care that much to control the IP or take risks. Or perhaps they came around seeing the reaction on the platform. Or perhaps the pitch from ClickBoom was good enough. Surely the price tag for the license should have been lower cause there's no way the (then) financially healthy Team17 with the Amiga market being alive finding the price too much but 1998 ClickBoom with the market being at a much worse condition finding it viable.

As for Carmack seen as... an 'asshole', I'm not sure anyone holds a grudge anymore either (lol)
Remember, it used to be the same with the Amiga vs ST flamewars. Hopefully we're not teenagers anymore.

[gimbal]

Originally Posted by Tsak

Remember, it used to be the same with the Amiga vs ST flamewars. Hopefully we're not teenagers anymore.

again, you only have to read some threads...

[Karlos]

Originally Posted by TCD

Team 17 did that. They considered to get the license from id to 'convert' what became Alien Breed 3D to an Amiga port of Doom. Apparently the price tag for the license was the problem.

So the license was too expensive. That's business. And I'm not unhappy since if this is true, we got the excellent Team17 game out of it (I'm a bit of a fan, didn't you know?). And then we got doom for free when the source went GPL. Amiga ports appeared within days.

[TCD]

Originally Posted by Karlos

So the license was too expensive. That's business. And I'm not unhappy since if this is true, we got the excellent Team17 game out of it (I'm a bit of a fan, didn't you know?). And then we got doom for free when the source went GPL. Amiga ports appeared within days.

The Amiga got the original Doom because Carmack made the source code available. So... instead of blaming him, we should thank him?

[Dunny]

Originally Posted by TCD

The Amiga got the original Doom because Carmack made the source code available. So... instead of blaming him, we should thank him?

Thanks Carmack.

Tharmack.

[Karlos]

Originally Posted by TCD

The Amiga got the original Doom because Carmack made the source code available. So... instead of blaming him, we should thank him?

It's also worth noting that the source releases have generally been timed so as to try and make sure that licencees have had time to recoup their costs. That would include Clickboom, when the Quake source was released. Obviously all that came to an end with Bethesda. Don't expect to see Doom 2016 source.

[TCD]

Originally Posted by Karlos

Obviously all that came to an end with Bethesda.

And Bethesda started with an Amiga. A perfect circle

[dreadnought]

I love how the interent people are always able to blame something on Bethesda

[TCD]

Originally Posted by dreadnought

I love how the interent people are always able to blame something on Bethesda

An interview with John Carmack, the lead graphics engine developer at id (at the time), indicated that like its predecessors, id Tech 5 would eventually be released as open-source. The move to open source would likely come many years after id Tech 5's release as a proprietary engine. At QuakeCon 2007, Carmack told LinuxGames that he would integrate as little proprietary software as possible into id Tech 5, as "eventually id Tech 5 is going to be open source also. This is still the law of the land at id, that the policy is that we’re not going to integrate stuff that’s going to make it impossible for us to do an eventual open source release." Carmack resigned from id in 2013, and no source code release followed the launch of id Tech 6 in 2016.

At QuakeCon 2010, id CEO Todd Hollenshead announced that while id Tech 5 could be shared with internal ZeniMax Media developers, the engine will not be available for external licensing. On November 10, 2010 it was announced that the first ZeniMax internal developer to work with the engine would be MachineGames.

Of course we should blame Zenimax and not Bethesda

[Karlos]

Originally Posted by dreadnought

I love how the interent people are always able to blame something on Bethesda

Not at all, I've been a dedicated Bethesda betatester for years!

[Reynolds]

Originally Posted by Karlos

So the license was too expensive. That's business. And I'm not unhappy since if this is true, we got the excellent Team17 game out of it (I'm a bit of a fan, didn't you know?). And then we got doom for free when the source went GPL. Amiga ports appeared within days.

I had no idea about that how big fan you are, no.

[Total Eclipse]

Originally Posted by Dunny

Thanks Carmack.

Tharmack.

I see what you did there

[gimbal]

Originally Posted by Karlos

Not at all, I've been a dedicated Bethesda betatester for years!

Dangerous thing to admit when the games tend to release in an almost playable state

[CCCP alert]

As others have said he didn't give a shit about Amiga then, and still doesn't I bet

[Karlos]

Originally Posted by gimbal

Dangerous thing to admit when the games tend to release in an almost playable state

Well, by betatester I mean customer.

[idrougge]

Originally Posted by d4rk3lf

Amiga hardware is so rich of various possibilities for making various softwares, that impresses me over and over again.

And that’s why Dread runs on the ST.

[dreadnought]

Originally Posted by Karlos

Not at all, I've been a dedicated Bethesda betatester for years!

So, like I was saying...


It's a pity though, when a programmer, who in theory should know better how things work in the real world, also can't resist the lure of the low hanging fruit.

[Karlos]

For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not a Bethesda betatester. At least no more than any of their other paying customers are.

[Bruce Abbott]

Originally Posted by idrougge

And that’s why Dread runs on the ST.

And why Defender of the Crown runs on the ST, and a PC with CGA, Mac, Amstrad CPC, Apple IIgs, C64 and CD-i.