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#61 | |
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: >
Posts: 2,989
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Quote:
Yawn. These complaints were made about SNES games in game reviews at the time. |
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#62 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Ur, Atlantis
Posts: 2,186
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The complaints were made, because it's perfectly normal to mention minor flaws (not to mention that slowdowns were also a thing to be expected on many powerful arcade boards) - alongside the mostly stellar +80% scores. It's only in modern times that these things have been hyperbolized, mostly by social media users who can't let go of old tribal beefs. |
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#63 | ||
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Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Landsberg / Germany
Posts: 530
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Quite simply No. I was responsible for taking screenshots at magazines that covered Amiga and consoles in the 90s. I can tell you that it was much more difficult to shoot MD and SNES than most Amiga games, as consoles mostly kept a refresh rate of 50 fps. This halves the time to shoot and store a picture compared to a 25 fps game. Keep in mind that in these old days, one could not simply record a pixel perfect video, and then grab the most beautiful moments like today. Back then, every single screenshot was hard labor. Video output expertise was essential. Quote:
Besides, the term "framerate matters not" simply does not compute when discussing visual tech stuff like object count or fill rate. |
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#64 |
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Join Date: May 2023
Location: Norwich
Posts: 508
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Some games can be slow and still fine (because they're more cerebral) and some games work better when they're as responsive as possible (reaction based shooters etc).
But that's a little bit beside the point. If you're trying to get some metric for "most objects on the screen" you sort of need some kind of benchmark time period for managing those objects or comparisons become meaningless. There's no real limit for how many objects you can have on the Amiga screen, if you're happy to be measuring in Frames per Hour. It doesn't really matter if pick a frame rate of 50fps or 17fps to compare, although consoles will probably skew towards being better at high frame rates and the Amiga better at lower ones (because consoles start being bounded by sprite hardware where the Amiga is only bound by drawing time). |
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#65 | |
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Join Date: May 2023
Location: Norwich
Posts: 508
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Half the sprites might move on odd frames, the other half on the even frames. This leads to the frame changing at 50fps, although the game only really plays at 25fps. And that's before you start getting into games that move the main player sprite every frame, but enemies only every few frames etc. |
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#66 |
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Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 3,457
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I do agree that any max object count should be considered only for games running at full framerate and without slowdown. On both Amiga and other systems. And of course, without tricks like 'only update half the Sprites every frame'.
Edit: I removed the off-topic part of my reply, as I don’t feel it’d have led to useful discussion. Last edited by roondar; 05 February 2024 at 19:26. |
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#67 |
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Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: UK
Posts: 18
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'Max object count' is a silly metric
There's numerous demo effects creating starfields and tunnels out of large numbers of dots. The Amiga did pretty well there, as dedicated demo coders spent many years trying to push the limits of the machine. But in terms of moving useful-for-games objects around, an unexpanded A500 or A1200 just couldn't keep up with the SNES or Megadrive, they simply had more capable sprite+tilemap hardware designed specifically for making impressive 2D games. |
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#68 |
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Join Date: Nov 2021
Location: Utrecht/Netherlands
Posts: 339
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Arcade machines have also amazing hardware capabilities on sprites. Otherwise cpu of the arcades were not that powerful
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#69 |
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Join Date: May 2023
Location: essex
Posts: 588
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Game engine frame update for display is only part of the story of 'arcade quality', how often you measure controller input and what you do with that input is the whole story. You don't need 50fps etc sure, you do need consistency though.
Dual developments that share this section of code with ST and Amiga, usually written with a compiled high level language (or bespoke tools in the case of Cinemaware), are where the problem occurs because of inconsistency not actual final frame rate. And that's really what 'console' or 'arcade quality' really means, it's frame locked consistent game engine that connects screen update with controller input with you doing the interfacing between the 2. |
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#70 |
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Join Date: Jan 2023
Location: Toronto
Posts: 424
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I was playing NY Warriors last night and forgot just how intense a game it is. It's almost a bullet hell at points with the amount of stuff on the screen. Take for example 20:45 onwards here
[ Show youtube player ] Not sure if there was slowdown on real Amigas but it's pretty darn impressive, especially for 1989 when it was made, the Arcadia ROMs say 1989 but the regular Amiga version didn't come out until 1990.
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