How would you improve the EAB?

I wonder who will lock the thread when RCK starts flaming as well

[BippyM]

How to improve the EAB:

Ban Jim

Originally Posted by bippym

How to improve the EAB:

Ban Jim

Well you've been trying to do this since August. So much for moderator impartiality. I don't think any professional moderator should discuss in public anything about banning members unless he himself is the one with his finger on the ban trigger. But clearly as your one-sided opinions and most of your contribution to this thread has demonstrated I do have your moderation credentials in doubt.

[BippyM]

Originally Posted by Jim

Well you've been trying to do this since August.

And how have you come to that conclusion?

edit: seeing as you edited your post after I quoted you I'll leave my quote in and respond.

I don't know what has happened with you recently but you are behaving like an idiot.. I was joking with the ban jim post, if I meant it I would have suggested a ban in the moderator section (and as other mods can clarify I haven't requested such!)

You don't listen to reason and you are always right regardless.. all I am saying is ppl deserve to be treated with some respect and you seem to have no respect for anyone.

If you wish to continue this either go into IRC when I'm there or PM!

I have made my feelings perfectly clear on this subject and regardless of what you think the only cock I have ever handled is my own!

I am not going to post in here any longer unless its to do with improving the eab. As it is this thead has proven that the majority think like I do and the minority (i.e you) think that lame users should be persecuted!

Originally Posted by bippym

And how have you come to that conclusion?

edit: seeing as you edited your post after I quoted you I'll leave my quote in and respond.

I didn't edit my post as such - I added too it. No text was deleted.

Originally Posted by bippym

I don't know what has happened with you recently but you are behaving like an idiot.. I was joking with the ban jim post, if I meant it I would have suggested a ban in the moderator section (and as other mods can clarify I haven't requested such!)

Right, so I can make any post I want and then say "Oops I was joking" when I see how it seriosuly effects any ounce of credbiliity I might have in my position?

Originally Posted by bippym

You don't listen to reason and you are always right regardless.. all I am saying is ppl deserve to be treated with some respect and you seem to have no respect for anyone.

I do have respect for people. But in this place I have more respect for the board. If an improvement or criticism of the board involves upsetting some members then so be it. I am selfish in the resepct that I want a perfect Amiga board - as I am sure we all are.

Originally Posted by bippym

I am not going to post in here any longer unless its to do with improving the eab. As it is this thead has proven that the majority think like I do and the minority (i.e you) think that lame users should be persecuted!

This has proved nothing, but has revealed many things.

[BippyM]

Originally Posted by Jim

I didn't edit my post as such - I added too it. No text was deleted.

Yes I stand corrected

Right, so I can make any post I want and then say "Oops I was joking" when I see how it seriosuly effects any ounce of credbiliity I might have in my position?

As I said I have not mentioned you being banned in the moderator pages and I am not going to discuss this with you here, if you want to know ask me or one of the sup-mods! If was going to push for you to be banned I would hardly tell you now would I?

Also because this is between me and you (mainly) I can't hold a fair, honest and non-biased opinion about you, so I won't even attempt to justify any reasons for banning you.

Finally on the subject of credibility at what point within this thread have I slagged you off for your opinions or made comments about you holding cocks or whatever (regardless of the context you meant it)...

Oh I haven't (other than saying you have an attention disorder) and my outburst to you suggesting I cock hold!!

It seems to me you are just out to shit stir for users who don't like your aggressive attitude. I'm sorry but I'm not that lame to argue any longer, it's a waste of time and a waste of bandwidth!

I do have respect for people. But in this place I have more respect for the board. If an improvement or criticism of the board involves upsetting some members then so be it. I am selfish in the resepct that I want a perfect Amiga board - as I am sure we all are.

Something we agree on but remember there is no such thing as perfection, everything that is perfect can be improved in some way or another.

Also the board is only what it is because of the people.. Which do you respect more? an empty eab with no members because you have no respect for them or a brimming EAB with lots of members who respect each other (the perfect though unrealistic scenario) are willing to help each other etc..

This has proved nothing, but has revealed many things.

Indeed

Originally Posted by bippym

As I said I have not mentioned you being banned in the moderator pages and I am not going to discuss this with you here, if you want to know ask me or one of the sup-mods!

I wouldn't be stupid enough to ask a mod, a sup-mod or even RCK for any opinion they privately hold about me or have seen others in their position stating about me because I belive that the inner-workings/thoughts of the moderating group in respect to their opinions on members should remain just that. That is moderators who actually know their job, know when to set limits, know where theIR limit is and how best to handle situations.

Originally Posted by bippym

If was going to push for you to be banned I would hardly tell you now would I?

See above.

Originally Posted by bippym

Also because this is between me and you (mainly) I can't hold a fair, honest and non-biased opinion about you, so I won't even attempt to justify any reasons for banning you.

Thanks. Seems I taught you something in the posts above.

Originally Posted by bippym

Finally on the subject of credibility at what point within this thread have I slagged you off for your opinions or made comments about you holding cocks or whatever (regardless of the context you meant it)...

Oh I haven't (other than saying you have an attention disorder) and my outburst to you suggesting I cock hold!!

No I take full credit for my wonderful cock-holding anology. I alone am the only person who has mentioned this that I know of.

Originally Posted by bippym

It seems to me you are just out to shit stir for users who don't like your aggressive attitude. I'm sorry but I'm not that lame to argue any longer, it's a waste of time and a waste of bandwidth!

Yes you need to keep that bandwidth available for your FTP as this is one thing that you contribute to the scene that I cannot (and never have) faulted you on.

Originally Posted by bippym

Also the board is only what it is because of the people.. Which do you respect more? an empty eab with no members because you have no respect for them or a brimming EAB with lots of members who respect each other (the perfect though unrealistic scenario) are willing to help each other etc..

To use the same argument but from another viewpoint a badly run/managed/moderated board soon loses respect of the members or gradually slides out of control before anyone notices and when it's too late to change things.

I was simply mentioning these things before they happen. Maybe sometime somebody does need to stand up and moderate the mods (so to speak).

If we have moderators breaking their own rules and fulfilling requests for non-rare games in the rare games request section then what sort of example is that showing to others?

[fisken uno]

Originally Posted by bippym

all I am saying is ppl deserve to be treated with some respect and you seem to have no respect for anyone.

I've never felt that Jim has treated me disrespectfully

Seriously, kids, leave the personal grudge at the door. This discussion seems to revolve around the FAQ and how to treat member that don't read it. Let's put it this way: If we all think it's so much fun telling the same thing over and over again we might as well remove the FAQ, right? That's the initial reason for having a FAQ in the first place. Upon registration you are clearly prompted to read the FAQ. Let's say that you ignore this, and you start a thread asking for Amiga ROMZ of "rarities" such as Pinball Fantasies... People don't seem very upset but tell you in a nice way that you might want to read the FAQ next time. "Whoa" you think, "They were nice and all, but why the hell should I read the FAQ when they tell me what's in it anyway? They gave me the link for this game, I bet they'll do it one more time. HA!". The point is that the FAQ is there for a reason. Then again, of course, just being nice in itself is a completely different matter that has never done any harm afaik.

Originally Posted by fisken uno

I've never felt that Jim has treated me disrespectfully

Tosser There you go, that's a first

(note the use of the Bippy to signify that this is a joke).

Originally Posted by fisken uno

Seriously, kids.....

Great post Fisken. No need to quote it all a post like that is too good to be read as a quote.

[Peanutuk]

I started this thread with the sole intention of providing a structured means for EABers to present how they would like the board to progress in the hope that this would prompt a adult and considered debate that would benefit us all. However I was under no illusion whatsoever that this would not and indeed could not happen as things stand; at this moment in time it is impossible to have such a reasoned debate, as I desired, on this forum.

The problem of how new users are treated is not a self-contained issue, it is a symptom of a larger problem which has to be addressed if the issues raised here are to be solved. In this thread several users (Freckle, Dast, ParallaxScroll) have stated that there should less 'trolling', one user has also stated that they felt it unwise to express their opinions because they feared that they would be needlessly abused. As well as the users I have mentioned above, three members of staff (myself, Cody and Bippy) have expressed their concerns about the attitude that both Akira and Jim embody and the way in which they are affecting the board.

Although the way new users are/aren't treated is a serious issue the fact that the actions of two users (Akira and, it seems to a greater extent, Jim) have created a culture of self-censorship that applies to everyone but themselves is the biggest problem that this board has and it is one that is essentially unmeasurable. As a member of staff I am embaressed to be associated with a team that derides user's genuine concerns in such a way as seen in this off-topic thread. You may think that this is humourous but it serves to enforce the uncomfortable atmosphere of self-censorship that those with something genuine to say suffer.

In order that i may practice what i preach I cannot state the above without stating a possible solution,so:

Jim: his posts consistanly lower the quality of discussion, he makes "stupid, repeated off-topic posts" , causes "flame-wars" and is a significant contributor to the prohibitive and destructive atmosphere I describe above; just look at the state of this thread. He should, in my opinion, be temporarily banned and then restated under review.

Akira: As long as the attitude he represents is institutionalised within a member of staff there will be constant atagonism between those users and staff who wish to see a free and open board where people aren't persuaded not to express themselves and Akira. Something needs to be done by RCK to address this issue as only he can do it.

I relise that i will now be abused to kingdom-come but so what? I would like other user's opinions on thisas they are valuable.

[BippyM]

Originally Posted by Jim

I wouldn't be stupid enough to ask a mod, a sup-mod or even RCK for any opinion they privately hold about me or have seen others in their position stating about me because I belive that the inner-workings/thoughts of the moderating group in respect to their opinions on members should remain just that. That is moderators who actually know their job, know when to set limits, know where theIR limit is and how best to handle situations.

Asking anyone what they think of you is just fine, I have just given permission for a supermod or RCK to tell you what I have said about you as I have nothing massively against you. I believe a person has a right to know what is written about them, good or bad (though they don't have the right to know who has said what!).

Thanks. Seems I taught you something in the posts above.

You have taught me nothing at all, that is something I have always and will always believe in.

No I take full credit for my wonderful cock-holding anology. I alone am the only person who has mentioned this that I know of.

congratulations, I'll be sure to give you an award for worst anology ever

Yes you need to keep that bandwidth available for your FTP as this is one thing that you contribute to the scene that I cannot (and never have) faulted you on.

Thank-you , my knowledge isn't the best here so I try help in other ways (and yes your account is still active )

To use the same argument but from another viewpoint a badly run/managed/moderated board soon loses respect of the members or gradually slides out of control before anyone notices and when it's too late to change things.

I agree with you 100% on this, but there is no need for nastiness towards ppl unless they are out of line.. It needs to be a finely balanced and well oiled machine

I'm not asking for miracles just some politeness. if JB requests a file and doesn't read the faq then he should be politely be pointed to the FAQ. If he persists then your chastise/give em shit attitude is more relevant, at least give them a chance!

I was simply mentioning these things before they happen. Maybe sometime somebody does need to stand up and moderate the mods (so to speak).

If we have moderators breaking their own rules and fulfilling requests for non-rare games in the rare games request section then what sort of example is that showing to others?

Yes this is true, but sometimes its easier to quickly fill a request, but yes I agree we shouldn't encourage it.

Maybe RCK can make a button for mods that simply creates a response to a thread which would be something like

Originally Posted by Moderator

All the requests you are looking for can be fulfilled by read the FAQ

When a request for a common game is made the mod simply presses the button (instead of reply or quote) and that response is included and then the thread is closed automatically.

All other users keep out of the thread and simply pm a mod to close it!

What do you think to that idea?

[BippyM]

Originally Posted by Jim

Tosser There you go, that's a first

(note the use of the Bippy to signify that this is a joke).

Excuse me for not using a smiley.. wouldn't have been the first time (go check if you want) and it wont be the last!

me bad!!

Originally Posted by Peanutuk

In order that i may practice what i preach I cannot state the above without stating a possible solution,so:

Jim: his posts consistanly lower the quality of discussion, he makes "stupid, repeated off-topic posts" , causes "flame-wars" and is a significant contributor to the prohibitive and destructive atmosphere I describe above; just look at the state of this thread. He should, in my opinion, be temporarily banned and then restated under review.

Fair enough. This is your opinion. Oh wait. You are a moderator. Whilst you're freely entitled to hold these opinions, due to your current status and the need to show some level of impartiality you should keep these opinions to yourself or post in the relevant section (the moderators-only one).

Originally Posted by Peanutuk

Akira: As long as the attitude he represents is institutionalised within a member of staff there will be constant atagonism between those users and staff who wish to see a free and open board where people aren't persuaded not to express themselves and Akira. Something needs to be done by RCK to address this issue as only he can do it.

I relise that i will now be abused to kingdom-come but so what? I would like other user's opinions on thisas they are valuable.

I was chatting to Akira the other day, and I gave him my opinion on some of the moderators. He asked me for my opinion on him and I stated that I don't really have one as I don't notice him moderating.

He took great offence to this and took it as a sign I was calling him a lazy git.

I explained it should be taken as a compliment - the best moderating should be unnoticable.

For you to be spouting your opinions on any member in a public board section is very silly because of your priveleged position. For you to be spouting similar stuff about a fellow "team member" is bloody stupid

If you want the right to air you opinions about others in public then I suggest you do us all a favour and resign from the team. You are the most useless example of moderator I have ever witnessed on these forums.

Originally Posted by bippym

Asking anyone what they think of you is just fine, I have just given permission for a supermod or RCK to tell you what I have said about you as I have nothing massively against you. I believe a person has a right to know what is written about them, good or bad (though they don't have the right to know who has said what!).

To be honest I'm not really interested. I'm more interested on your opinions in solving these issues. Banning me will not solve these issues.

Originally Posted by bippym

Maybe RCK can make a button for mods that simply creates a response to a thread which would be something like

When a request for a common game is made the mod simply presses the button (instead of reply or quote) and that response is included and then the thread is closed automatically.

All other users keep out of the thread and simply pm a mod to close it!

What do you think to that idea?

Marvellous.

Except for 2 things.

1 - the thread shouldn't be locked. The posting member should have the right to apologise or encourage further discussion to avoid him repeating mistak in the future. Also another member about to make a similar mistake might jsut see it, stop and think.

2 - We should all have that button

[BippyM]

Originally Posted by Jim

To be honest I'm not really interested. I'm more interested on your opinions in solving these issues. Banning me will not solve these issues.

I don't think banning you initially will resolve the problems, I think a temp ban would be worse as you could come back worse!

Marvellous.

Except for 2 things.

1 - the thread shouldn't be locked. The posting member should have the right to apologise or encourage further discussion to avoid him repeating mistak in the future. Also another member about to make a similar mistake might jsut see it, stop and think.

Good point

2 - We should all have that button

Don't be daft (note use of smilies!!)

[fisken uno]

Originally Posted by Peanutuk

Akira: As long as the attitude he represents is institutionalised within a member of staff there will be constant atagonism between those users and staff who wish to see a free and open board where people aren't persuaded not to express themselves and Akira. Something needs to be done by RCK to address this issue as only he can do it.

First of all, discussing what "actions" should be taken against certain members in general and MODS in particular is nothing that should be discussed on the board ffs. Agreed, I don't read as much as I used to but I thought the whole stupid "mods election" discussion was finished? Akira has been mod a looooong time, and he is easily the best mod in my opinion. Never ever have I felt that he has suppressed me from expressing myself. You can't have such a thing as a "free and open board" according to my experiences, and YOU as a mod ought to know that. It might work for a while but it'll collapse eventually. The reason Akira's replies might be a bit grumpy MIGHT have to do with the fact that he's been dealing with n00bs for so long he's grown a wee bit tired of ignorant n00bs. Maybe you will too when you've been modding for such a long time as him. Akira takes his responsibilities VERY seriously (I still remember the misunderstanding when I made a joke about him deleting posts and he took it that I was accusing him for doing so).

Originally Posted by bippym

I don't think banning you initially will resolve the problems, I think a temp ban would be worse as you could come back worse!

As I stated before I think even your opinions such as the one above should be kept to yourself or just the other moderators.

Originally Posted by fisken uno

...

Just read fisken's original posts here people, and nothing else. Nobod even dare quote these masterpieces.

God that guy is good, I gotta add him to my buddy list

[Freckle]

Originally Posted by Jim

I don't see a problem with the board the way it is, in fact I think some are too nice sometimes

I think that any fears that this board is 'too nice' have been completely wiped away now.

I don't know why all common decency is disredgarded when matters move to the internet - I am sure that nobody would speak to each other like this through any other media. If there was a large meting of Amiga users/fans in conference centre or large hall somewhere, I am sure that we would not speak to each other in the same disgusting and often pathetic way that some people voice themselves here.

Someone has started a thread with the intentions of making this a better board, and yet it has simply become an illustration of all that is wrong with these forums.

I almost held myself back from writing this, for fear of the repurcussions and possible name-calling/back-biting that might be thrown at me in the ensuing discussion, but that again is another problem with this board. Some people are too quick to vioce their seemingly constant anger. I am sure that the blood-presue of some of the members here must be through the roof.

As far as other improvements to the board go, I find that the search function can be way too sensitive when I am searching for a particular thread. When I wanted to start the thread about the first videogame that people can remeber ever playing, every time I tried to searh for a relevant string of words it would throw back hundreds of threads, none realy addressing the topic, because most seach terms were too common, this happened whether I searched whole posts or just titles. If it is possible to alter this then maybe it will solve one of the problems of people posting repeat threads, and that'll be one less thing to argue about.

I think this thread says more about the moderating credentials of the active moderators in it (esp those active so far today) than anything about the niceness of the board.