29 July 2024, 12:06 | #61 | ||||||
son of 68k
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Now, if this particular point is what you want to discuss, let's just do it. Yes peecees are laggy, at least windows peecees. Most of the time things are fine, but all of a sudden an operation that should have been instant will take some seconds. Or your music player will miss buffers for no reason. Or some huge frame drop in a video. Choose. |
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29 July 2024, 19:16 | #62 | ||||||||||||||
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Not sure, if you are for real or just trolling ... well that probably means it is at least well done trolling ..
Some points are quite reasonable, others just hilarious. Quote:
But I would like to have the option to "freeze" a certain application and send it to disk at the actual state it is in - revoking it at any time later. But using a MMU to map and/or protect memory regions (also known as memory virtualization) is a must for a modern system, for stability reasons alone. But it should be done in form of a single address space, to speed up message passing. Quote:
at some point it will be possible to run UAE for games and use AxRuntime to recompile certain software. But compatibility-issues should not hinder innovation. This should be a fresh start. A system done from the scratch. It is not like we need yet an other platform to run old 68k software! This can be done on any modern OS via emulation as well as on OS4 and MorphOS. But what we are missing is a well behaved modern OS for modern hardware. Quote:
But artificial, non technical, limits are usually a bad idea. Quote:
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At least the user should always be easily able to spot which resources are in use at any given time. Quote:
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Not a useful point in todays hardware. Quote:
Makes no sense ... Quote:
Network-stack should be the same as any other device or task and work in the same way: Message passing by pointing to a memory region Quote:
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Some less cluttered platform, like a RasPi, with a more limited set of possible configurations, might be an easier starting point. Quote:
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29 July 2024, 21:21 | #63 | |
Phone Homer
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Amiga has kind of missed the boat. Linux is king and can be made to appear and function just like any other OS. |
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30 July 2024, 00:41 | #64 | ||
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Having a 'modern' screen resolution makes it less Amiga-like. When you do that problems arise with the way the Amiga does things. The mouse pointer gets small and hard to find. The menus at the top of the screen become a pain. You need a sharp high resolution monitor, and if you're old like me powerful glasses to read text in standard font sizes. Or you increase font sizes and create havoc with apps that can't handle it. IOW, all the problems you have with RTG on the Amiga. For effective use of modern video systems we actually need a less 'Amiga-like' OS. Menus should be attached to windows, not screens. Instead of Workbench functions being on a menu at the top of the screen, they should be accessed via a context menu activated with the RMB. In this way a minimum amount of mouse movement is required to do stuff, which becomes more important as the screen real estate increases. Quote:
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30 July 2024, 01:17 | #65 | |||||||||
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30 July 2024, 03:27 | #66 | ||||||
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Virtual memory can also help to establish and guard virtual hardware registers - so for the coder it would still look like hitting the metal, while in reality a driver/device take care of talking to the real hardware. This also would make it easier to multiplex real hardware resources. Quote:
Suspending a task and send it to disk fits very well the Amiga spirit, as long as the user is in full control over this. Quote:
Only one old (and very questionable) "feature" has to die: hooks. Hooks need to be replaced by messages ... so get the same responsiveness every task can yield the time it would have left on its schedule to the task it has send its message to. Quote:
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I don't really see a problem in calling something modern and much better than the legacy Amiga OS still "Amiga-like". We are >30 years later now. So putting "Amiga-like" in today's context, will quite naturally lead something that is different in many areas. And of course It would be logical to take that as an opportunity to make it better. Quote:
If we want a well behaved modern OS for modern hardware, we probably need to let such aspects go (I admit I would like to have M.2 SSD modules in Floppy like cases, that can be exchanged just that easy ... but this definitively falls into the category "gimmick".) |
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30 July 2024, 06:40 | #67 |
old chunk of coal
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I think this thread is proof that we can make a what-if thread even without Hammer's info-dumps
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30 July 2024, 09:02 | #68 | |||||
son of 68k
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Frankly i don't miss that. I rather miss the keyboard layout - much more logical than the pc layout -, the natural smoothing of the CRT screen, and the way it sounds in its loudspeakers. Besides, PC floppy drives don't have insertion detection. Or do they ? Quote:
Try with original chipset and see that the pointer's resolution can be setup separately of the screen's resolution. This is the real way Amiga does things. Granted, the menus at the top of the screen can be an issue but they wouldn't for new applications (or old apps that use gadtools or handle font size properly). I'm too old for my taste but my eyesight is good for my age - why, i don't even need glasses to read. I understand what you mean though, but i hold my point for better screen resolutions ; the Amiga way should be to provide the choice, not to give artificial limitations. So you can still use 640x256 if you want to ; that's the whole point of having an OS able to give suitable GUI for whatever screen resolution you throw at it (and what my own library is trying to achieve, btw). Quote:
Seriously, there are menu keyboard shortcuts and mouse acceleration software to take care of this. Todays mice also move faster than older ones already. Quote:
And not Amiga-like at all ? I'd rather give high-level programming interface which is simple and easy to use. After all, this is already what i'm using in the form of my system framework (which nobody notices as it's included as static library in my programs). Quote:
If you mean accessing obsolete PC hardware then emulators do this - we have dosbox. Oh, and i don't think pc parallel ports have ever been bidirectional like Amiga's... |
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30 July 2024, 12:41 | #69 | ||
Computer Nerd
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Yeah, that one is pretty nuts. |
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03 August 2024, 03:43 | #70 | |
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PS5 and PS4 Pro have PS4 mode that duplicates PS4 timings. Without graphics resource tracking, the backward compatibility sucks. This is extra legacy baggage from PlayStation. RDNA 3's GCN wave64 ISA is another legacy baggage imposed by PlayStation 4's GCN hit-the-metal! AMD just can't dump GCN ISA due to fukcing hit-the-metal game consoles. RDNA 3 (wave32 instruction set) couldn't completely dump the GCN's wave64 instruction set. This is extra legacy baggage from PlayStation! With backward incompatibility due to timing issues, any laptop attempts would also suck. A very fast X86-based PC would also need a PS4 emulator to preserve PS4's timing behavior! Vampire has "turtle mode" due to timing-related backward incompatibility issues. Without Emu68's "turtle mode" features, Emu68 emulates all 68k instructions except 68040 MMU and FP80 and still has timing-related backward incompatibility issues. Any future RDNA GPU without GCN's wave64 ISA would need a GCN emulator! The game console cramps AMD's GPU evolution like a modern-day Amiga!!!! PC evolved in a certain direction due to the rapid evolution of certain components e.g. GPUs. Careful of what you wish for. Last edited by hammer; 04 August 2024 at 05:08. |
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03 August 2024, 04:47 | #71 | |||||
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Yes, they do. But the OS doesn't make full use of it.
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Seems most people are saying they want something that is 'Amiga-like' but with 'improvements'. So the question is what Amiga features must be kept, what needs enhancing, and what can be discarded? Quote:
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Last edited by Bruce Abbott; 03 August 2024 at 04:52. |
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03 August 2024, 09:12 | #72 | ||||
son of 68k
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Strange. It seemed to me floppy drives started to disappear before having this feature.
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And most users have never actually seen one. Not to mention you'll have a hard time finding a compatible printer today. Quote:
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03 August 2024, 09:19 | #73 |
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Glad to now that since my A1200 doesn't have a floppy drive since almost ten years it isn't an Amiga anymore
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03 August 2024, 09:52 | #74 |
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Which is a no-no for any half-way robust Os design. If everything lives in a single address space, a single misguided process can take down the entire machine. Security-wise, robustness-wise, a very bad decision. Amiga and its poor 68K couldn't handle it any better, but that still doesn't make this a future-proof design.
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03 August 2024, 10:00 | #75 |
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03 August 2024, 10:02 | #76 |
old chunk of coal
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Hammer is here too, nice! This is a fully fledged what-if thread now
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03 August 2024, 10:04 | #77 |
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We should have a little ribbon icon next to the what-if threads (maybe an optional hammer icon for the really special ones).
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03 August 2024, 18:38 | #78 |
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a little Hammer and a Batman head, for Bruce. 8)
Last edited by sokolovic; 03 August 2024 at 19:09. |
04 August 2024, 05:20 | #79 | |
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AMD's Shader Intrinsic Functions for GCN from 8 years ago. This is developing a specific instruction set code path for a specific GCN instruction set on the PC. This bypasses the DX's DXIL and driver-side shader compilers. With the RDNA 3 era, AMD is silent on this initiative. Hint: RDNA 3 CU's dual-issue feature can only run in wave32 instructions. You're out of touch. Broadcom VideoCore 4 has IEEE-754 FP32 stream processors with fixed graphics hardware functions. Hint: DSP3210's IEEE-754 FP32 processing. The basic idea with modern GpGPU is a large array of IEEE-754 DSP in wavefront (MIMD) payload. It wouldn't be a "What if", it's an anti-reality distortion field. Last edited by hammer; 04 August 2024 at 05:34. |
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04 August 2024, 07:39 | #80 | |
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Are you talking about that tiny keyboard fitted comp, released after REAL Amiga? There is no Amiga 500,600,1200,4000... etc. There is only one Amiga! And it have 256kb of Ram... no less.. no more... ... |
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