LCD monitor with 50 Hz pal games

[Amiga1992]

VERY interesting, I did not know this!!

[wanderer]

Another thing I discovered is that while a monitor might claim 50Hz support, even through an HDMI port, it won't do it properly and convert the signal internally to 60Hz. The result is jerky/juddery video.
Prad.de is an excellent resource, since they test this in their reviews - check the final paragraphs of this review, for example.

[wanderer]

Back at this for one final question: the madVR video renderer recently introduced a frame rate conversion algorithm, which provides smooth PAL video/live TV playback on 60Hz displays, with amazing results. It's no frame interpolation and there are no such artefacts.
Would it be somehow possible to pass WinUAE's output to madVR and let it do the work, or a video renderer has absolutely nothing to do with emulation and I should just get a proper 50/100Hz monitor? Thanks.

[Toni Wilen]

I don't see how it can work without some side-effects. (and your link does not explain how it technically works)

Just get nvidia lightboost capable 3D display

[demolition]

Originally Posted by wanderer

Back at this for one final question: the madVR video renderer recently introduced a frame rate conversion algorithm, which provides smooth PAL video/live TV playback on 60Hz displays, with amazing results. It's no frame interpolation and there are no such artefacts.

It is always frame interpolation when you go from one frame rate to another, but there are many ways to do it. They call it 'smooth motion frame rate conversion algorithm' and I cannot imagine that they can do it without a high latency/delay and as such it would not be suitable for games. A high latency is not an issue for video playback though as you'd only notice it when pausing/forwarding/rewinding the video.

[wanderer]

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

I don't see how it can work without some side-effects. (and your link does not explain how it technically works)

Originally Posted by demolition

It is always frame interpolation when you go from one frame rate to another, but there are many ways to do it. They call it 'smooth motion frame rate conversion algorithm' and I cannot imagine that they can do it without a high latency/delay and as such it would not be suitable for games.

A bit more detailed info from the author, here. The only side-effect is minimal sharpness loss, but it's unnoticeable. Of course, gaming/emulation differs from video, but it works, with none of the side-effects of SVP.

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

Just get nvidia lightboost capable 3D display

Very interesting, thanks. Isn't it preferable to have a native 50/100Hz display? The page mentions it'll only work in 120Hz mode, can that offer smoothness for an emulated PAL Amiga?

[Toni Wilen]

Originally Posted by wanderer

A bit more detailed info from the author, here. The only side-effect is minimal sharpness loss, but it's unnoticeable. Of course, gaming/emulation differs from video, but it works, with none of the side-effects of SVP.

Where does it mention 50Hz to 60Hz support? I only see 23-25Hz to 50/60Hz.

Practically all games are non-laced, which need progressive 50Hz to 60Hz conversion, not interlaced 50Hz (=25Hz frame rate) or progressive 23-25Hz to 60Hz conversion.

Very interesting, thanks. Isn't it preferable to have a native 50/100Hz display? The page mentions it'll only work in 120Hz mode, can that offer smoothness for an emulated PAL Amiga?

AFAIK all 120Hz monitors also support 100Hz natively.

[wanderer]

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

Where does it mention 50Hz to 60Hz support? I only see 23-25Hz to 50/60Hz.

Hm, he mentions "Can convert any source frame rate to any display refresh rate, while maintaining smooth motion." so that shouldn't be a problem? He might be using those examples since it's mostly about video/projectors with specific limitations etc.

About the rest, it's really a bit over my head. It does what it promises for video (which is unusual, since it's no simple task) and I just thought it might have a use for WinUAE.

[demolition]

It looks like it can convert between any source and destination refresh rate, although a low source and high destination frame rate performs best. He doesn't mention anything about delay though, probably because it's not very relevant for movie playback.

It sounds like it works just like a typical asyncronous audio sample rate converter, just made for video instead, which is very useful for many purposes. Purists would still want to keep everything syncronized like they do with audio.

[wanderer]

One can very easily test PAL video, with MPC-HC, madVR (and optionally, LAV Filters) on a typical 60Hz display.

[Leandro Jardim]

My LED TV have one strange issue with 50 Hz HDMI/DVI modes. It is a FullHD TV and can show very sharp 1080p "Windows images" but when I change the refresh rate to 50 Hz exactly on any resolution greater than 1280x720, some screen lines gets removed, and is impossible to use it.

[dJOS]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

A real Amiga on a 50 Hz Plasma TV via analog Scart shows a kind of motion blur in scrolling games, it's probably the A/D conversion. The scrolling is smooth though. On the other side, WinUAE via HDMI on a 50Hz Plasma is perfect.

I have a Professional 50" Pioneer Plasma monitor (50MXE20) and Amiga RGB @ 50Hz/15kHz is damn near perfect - Picture Quality is on par with my 1081 despite the upscaling. I've never seen an LCD get even close!