28 January 2017, 08:50 | #61 | |
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28 January 2017, 09:15 | #62 | |
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It was too expensive.. way too expensive and it needed 8 times the RAM to do the same as an Amiga. There was no DMA... but since the ARM cpu is basically the best blitter ever there was no need. |
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31 January 2017, 23:18 | #63 |
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I know this isn't the question -- but -- the Atari 800 is probably the closest machine architecturally to the Amiga .
- Custom chips (3) sharing RAM with processor. (4 if you count the processor...) - System clock is based on the PAL/NTSC frequencies (1.77/1.79 mhz) - "Color full" 256 colors, with tricks to display all on screen at once (line by line palette changes) - Hardware sprites ("player/missle graphics") And in one way is more advanced than the Amiga (and Atari ST): - Atari SIO is an early form of USB (carries data, voltage across a universal cable -- devices have firmware that upload upon power on). The speed this serial port can sustain is higher than the serial ports on the ST or Amiga.. (72000 bps or higher works) For a system launched after the Amiga 1000; I'd vote for the Sharp X68000 easily. It was built to run games/arcade ports -- the original Amiga (and Atari 800) was/were designed as games machines. Though, the X68000 did have separate VRAM (i.e. What Jay Miner wanted in 87-89).. Atari STE (1989) is the purely closest cousin of course.. Acorn Archimedes is a cool machine though it doesn't have sprite support, hardware scrolling assist (blitter), or a lot of the tricks the other machines listed here have. |
01 February 2017, 02:10 | #64 |
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Back on topic.
The TI-89, TI-92, TI-92 Plus and Voyage 200 from Texas Instruments are running on 68k processors (10/12 mhz) and using a simple frame buffer as video memory (planar like the Amiga). There's a lot of games (some with sources, some without, in C or ASM) here: http://www.ticalc.org/pub/ Converting them to a machine like the Amiga shouldn't be too hard (they may require redrawing the gfx for higher resolutions and adding music/fx, tho ). Last edited by hitchhikr; 01 February 2017 at 14:50. |
27 October 2017, 08:09 | #65 | |
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All this for the sake of compatability with future Acorn machines. Hardware scrolling was doable on the Archie, and today new, easier, techniques are possible thanks to the creation of a pseudo H-Sync interrupt nobody had bothered to code at the time, except one German demo coder in 1993. (The Archies have no hardware h-sync interrupt). The challenge was to code a software solution to get a precise h-sync interrupt using one of the 2 Mhz timers. It is completed. Including a MOD playroutine and a keyboard handler not conflicting. It works. It opens brand new possibilities, from palette changes (multiple per scanline) to hardware multidirectional scrolling, as the Archie is fast enough to redefine all values of the registers found in the video controller and the memory controller, at the end of each scanline. This is possible thanks to the ARM architecture with its fast accessing the memory, and its low latency to deal with interrupts. In these matters, just compare with a 68000, you will see how ridiculously sluggish the Motorola chip is compared to the Acorn ARM2 as found in the 1st generation of Archies. (The ARM is roughly 4 times faster than the 68000 in these 2 areas). Last edited by Zarchos; 27 October 2017 at 08:35. |
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27 October 2017, 10:23 | #66 |
CaptainM68K-SPS France
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True but the archie is a niche machine with very few people. The Amiga has the biggest computer communauty.
So Arm or 68000, who cares ? |
27 October 2017, 15:44 | #67 |
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Actually the ARM was/is a great CPU. I bet if RJ Mical and Dave Needle were around and developing a next gen Amiga they would use it. They used it on the 3DO.
In fact the Amiga should be ARM based long time ago. |
27 October 2017, 15:49 | #68 | |
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Other computers having the 680x0 processor computers are Apple Lisa, Macintosh, Sinclair QL, X68000, Atari ST, Sun and Apollo Domain workstations. Consoles: Sega Mega Drive, Atari Jaguar, Sega CD. Arcade games: Too many to mention them. Most notable Sega's System 16, Capcom CP System, CPS-2 and SNK's Neo Geo. With that being said it is actually easier to port something if you have the source code for whatever platform it is (even if it is written in assembler), than disassembling it from other computer and trying to port it to Amiga (own experience). |
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27 October 2017, 22:35 | #69 | |
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The ARM in the Arc has the standard Amiga 500 beat for vectors, for everything else, the Arc is at a significant disadvantage. Thems the facts |
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28 October 2017, 06:33 | #70 | |
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Clearly the Archies are not gifted with specialised chips for, among other things, gaming, as found in the Amigas. Their architectures haven't much in common. In most cases, for 2D games, the Amiga beats the Archie (8 Mhz) but highly optimised (generated) code on the Archie can make a BIG difference. The user base and the lack of interest for games gave the result that no programmer pushed the Archie as far as Amiga programmers did for the Commodore. I only see the unreleased game Scorpius as using clever programming techniques on the Archie. Furthermore, in 2D, hardware acceleration hasn't been used on the Archie. Now it is available, it is going to be interesting to see what can really be achieved on the Acorn machine. I see tremendous speed gains, and with the right algos, to me, the Archie will clearly beat the Amiga, and in 256 colour screen modes. For 3D, realtime, (not players reading coords and filling segments, as found in the Amiga demos), there is just no questioning the Archie, with the outstanding power of its CPU, + chunky screen modes, puts the Amiga to shame (and in 256 colours). Rather disappointing for the Commodore machine, when supposedly it has hardware segment drawing capability, when the Archie has no specialised chip, but 'simply' fast multiple load and store registers instructions. Last edited by Zarchos; 28 October 2017 at 06:54. Reason: Correcting Frenglish |
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28 October 2017, 13:10 | #71 | |
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How was the Amiga a failure? It was commercially viable for at least ten years, very few machines get to boast a lifespan half that. Dreamcast? MegaCD? 3Do? CDi? WiiU? I think you need to reaquaint yourself with the word failure, it doesnt mean what you think it means. Theres no 'alledgedly' about the copper, it made lots of games very colourful, lots of games in excess of 100+ colours for decent games was the norm. Im not sure how you can describe it as hideous when the Archimedes had the same 4096 colour pallette as the Amiga....... Displaying thousands of colours (which Archimedes games rarely did) presumably comes at a cost......the cost was giving the processor too much to do. A few sprites and tiny? Sure, the Amiga sprite hardware isnt as adept as the Megadrive or SNES, but in the right hands its perfectly capable with multiplexing of doing some pretty good things.....and then you go onto brag about the Arc's SINGLE hardware sprite as if that remotely compares?!?!?!?! Listen, because you have a problem listening and cant seem to grasp reality. The Archimedes was/is a good machine, no-one who knows them or has seen them in action disputes it, but the fact remains, in the majority of areas when it comes to game mechanics, the Amiga 500 has the Archimedes beat in ALL areas except vectors. It was a fact 20 years ago, and its still a fact now. It doesnt matter if people have developed new and interesting routines to simulate hardware scrolling on the Arc, because its all too late, no-one cares anymore, because just like the Amiga, the Arc is commercially dead. You can pretend that all the Amiga is, is a slow ass 68000, with barely functional hardware attached to it, but that hardware more than made up for the shortfall of a slower processor than the ARM processor. I appreciate you love and like the Archimedes, and some of us like it too, but you coming here to an Amiga board, spouting nonsense about a machine you clearly dont understand very well is laughable. If your routines are so magical, feel free to do a 1:1 copy of Shadow of the Beast in 512k of memory on the Archimedes and get back to me. Its time for you to put up or shut up, you keep banging on about these amazing new routines, lets see them in action, because talk is cheap |
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28 October 2017, 20:56 | #72 |
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Regardless of what numbers people can put out or specific tech demos or whatever, this single fact stands straight: the Archimedes lost to the Amiga when it came to games. Period. That is absolutely undeniable. And come on! Games were all we cared about back in the day. Don't pretend I'm wrong.
Due to that single fact, it's why we currently have accelerator boards for the Amiga, hardware and software being developed, there are tons of Amiga related websites, an active community (if grumpy and elitist) and the Archie? Well, it's virtually dead. The Archimedes, as a machine, had its merits and strong points, won't say it didn't, and the ARM technology was/is very significant, but I would never trade any of my beloved miggies for any Archimedes. Ever. |
28 October 2017, 22:19 | #73 | |
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End of gaming on the Amiga. When I got a GUS for my PC I never ever listened to any 4 channel tunes on the Amiga, but switched to S3Ms, XMs, of course). 2. The Archimedes had successors, unlike the Amigas, they are for example the RISC PCs, the Iyonix, more recently the Raspberry Pis. The RISC OS scene is very far from dead, you should inquire. It is true gaming is nobody's concern, like in the past, though. And that is just excellent : playing is not expressing one's creativity. 3. Good for you, that is only personal opinion, so I won't argue, and will respect it. This is all about what struck you in your teen years, and not based on facts, but on affect. Last edited by Zarchos; 28 October 2017 at 22:27. |
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29 October 2017, 05:11 | #74 |
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Wasn‘t the ARM all but forgotten for many years? I certainly never heard about it until mobile devices came into the light, and there it was chosen for its low energy consumption and less for any of its other capabilities.
Well that was my impression, anyways. And on the Archie, I remember it for Lander/Zarch and that was it. |
29 October 2017, 08:35 | #75 |
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Fun thread.. yes, a lot of computers and consoles beat the A500, but it has old hardware released back in 1985 (same as A1000, but with more memory). Those machines and consoles which were released some years laters, like Archimedes, Sega Megadrive, and SNES outperforms the A500 hardware in many areas at least on paper.
But these days, people have often an AGA machine, with some 68030-68060 CPU, which outperforms probably easily most Archies. This is the mid range of Amiga computers. Lately, we also got some FPGA Amigas, with a 68080 CPU that equals a 1000 MHz 68030 or 500 MHz 68040 in performance. And modern screenmodes + 16 bit audio. The Amiga still has a future, while there is no new hardware development for Archimedes that I know of. |
29 October 2017, 09:14 | #76 | |
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All of those are (except the Iyonix) affordable and RISCOS development is reasonably alive, far more then say OS4. And yes, this runs old 'OS Clean' software perfectly fine, if its built against the old 26 bit program counter CPU mode there's a compatibility layer application (end user wise about as transparent as Trance/Petunia) (i realise i might just now have invited another flamewar, ROOL vs Amiga 'NG' mwuahahaha) |
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29 October 2017, 10:05 | #77 | |
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29 October 2017, 10:12 | #78 |
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Please refraim was abusing people / using language like you have in your previous post Zarchos.
If you can't have a simple discussion then I suggest that you ignore this thread completely. Last warning from me. |
29 October 2017, 22:28 | #79 |
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Enough!
Thread closed. Expect many posts to be removed when time allows. |
29 October 2017, 23:02 | #80 | |
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You are clearly on the wrong forum and only here to stir shite up... I've temporary banned you in the past for your actions, still you haven't learnt from your mistakes. Good riddance!!! C'est la vie!!! Edit: and I'm also REALLY looking forward to YOUR Archie version of "Shadow of the Beast"... I'm sure I'll be dead before it sees the light of day; but even if by some miracle it gets released, I'm positive that it won't be even half as good as the Amiga version Last edited by DamienD; 29 October 2017 at 23:20. |
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