Final Fight: Enhanced

[Marcio D.]

Originally Posted by d4rk3lf

If you read some messages earlier in this thread, I offered him to pay him some funds only for the work he has done so far, and asked him if he could provide his PP or any account, so anyone could pay. I repeat, only for the work he already done. He refused. So, if he refused that (just a gift), how do you think he is eager to create patreon, where he will be in some sort of commitment to make improvements on future builds?And to tell you honestly, I respect that, and I'd do the same thing. I am very happy he is willing that do some minor corrections, from time to time. I also hope, at some point in time, he will give source code to jotd, or any other coder he have trust, to continue refining the port... but it's only his decision. In some sense, I understand not releasing source code yet, because imagine the confusion that would create, where many coders would take, and fix just 1 and 2 things, and million versions of FFE on Amiga would appear.

If Brick Nash declined your offer in the past, that doesn't mean he'd decline a financial incentive from this point going forward. Circumstances can change, and people can change. Three years ago, he began the project motivated by a desire to learn 68000 assembly and to prove to himself that a better Amiga Final Fight was possible. Now that he's got a firm grasp on 68000 assembly and he's produced a better Final Fight than the U.S. Gold version, those two specific things can no longer serve as motivators.

At this point, if a bit of money can help motivate, then so be it. There's absolutely no shame in that. Almost everyone asks for financial incentives nowadays - e.g. YouTubers, other content creators, etc.

Like you, I'd prefer to see Brick Nash pass the source code to someone trustworthy and competent like jotd. Instead of making the code available to everyone. I too would prefer not to see many simultaneous versions of FFE floating around, being worked on by many independent programmers. There is already so much chaos in other parts of the Amiga community, such as the many, many flavours of Amiga or Amiga-like operating systems in existence. So darn confusing!

[trixster]

It’s no wonder some people move on from projects when they keep on getting pressured. If the guy wants to bug fix then let him do so in his own time. If he doesn’t, then he doesn’t. He does not owe anyone here anything. By all means continue to post bug reports, but lay off the clamouring pressure to release his code. It’s his work, if he wants to hand it over he will do, if he doesn’t then sobeit. Some of the entitled comments in this thread are bewildering.

[BigD]

Originally Posted by trixster

...By all means continue to post bug reports, but lay off the clamouring pressure to release his code. It’s his work, if he wants to hand it over he will do, if he doesn’t then sobeit. Some of the entitled comments in this thread are bewildering.

There will not be the interest in this release forever. For instance, the Amiga port of C&C is still in an unfinished state with no hot keys implemented on the FMV version! People get bored after the fanfare of achieving the first beta release! It's better to polish a bit now so that it's not just a fun tech demo but a great version in its own right! It's nearly there even with the ECS limitations. It probably needs someone else to do some 2-player testing. My son is getting bored of the replays and I'm not good enough at 1-player to get to Rolento never mind Belger!

[Marcio D.]

Originally Posted by trixster

It’s no wonder some people move on from projects when they keep on getting pressured. If the guy wants to bug fix then let him do so in his own time. If he doesn’t, then he doesn’t. He does not owe anyone here anything. By all means continue to post bug reports, but lay off the clamouring pressure to release his code. It’s his work, if he wants to hand it over he will do, if he doesn’t then sobeit. Some of the entitled comments in this thread are bewildering.

On the other hand, if this thread receives a post only once every 30 days, Brick Nash could misinterpret that as nobody having any interest in FFE. And if that causes him to abandon further development, that's obviously a bad thing for us. The trick is to show enough enthusiasm, without going overboard and placing excessive pressure on him.

Brick Nash, if you're reading this... we're all grateful for this gem you've created. Please continue working on it if you can, at a pace you're comfortable with.

We need FFE in our lives, because Metro Siege is a joke at this point and will take at least another 6 years to finish.

[BigD]

Originally Posted by Marcio D.

...We need FFE in our lives, because Metro Siege is a joke at this point and will take at least another 6 years to finish.

I didn't realise development had stalled to such a degree! Feature creep do you think? I too am glad to have FFE. Thank you Brick Nash!

[pixie]

Originally Posted by Marcio D.

We need FFE in our lives, because Metro Siege is a joke at this point and will take at least another 6 years to finish.

their being victims of their own success I guess

[Marcio D.]

Originally Posted by BigD

I didn't realise development had stalled to such a degree! Feature creep do you think? I too am glad to have FFE. Thank you Brick Nash!

When Metro Siege first started development around four years ago, the team mentioned that they were working on it only part-time - i.e. in their spare time, because they already had day jobs.

Since then, the problem has been compounded by the fact that they've juggled and prioritized other projects over Metro Siege, such as DaemonClaw. They crowdfunded a lot of money for DaemonClaw, but I don't know if this has allowed them to work on their games full-time:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...ios/daemonclaw


In any event, I'm not holding my breath for Metro Siege. If it gets released in 5 or 6 years, I'll consider it a bonus to the Amiga community. If it gets released in 3 to 4 years, I'll consider it a miracle!

[Flytag]

Originally Posted by Marcio D.

That may have been Brick Nash's intent when he first started this project three years ago. But how do you know he wouldn't appreciate some financial incentive going forward, now that the project has entered the phase of remaining bug corrections and possible improvements? Do you have an inside track? Are you a personal friend of his?

While most folks regard Richard Aplin as a competent coder and don't fault him for his version of Amiga Final Fight given the constraints he was working under, the only charm to his version was the splendid title music by Jolyon Myers. A good conversion should strive for a colour palette that better captures the spirit of the arcade original. Unfortunately, the garish palette of the 1991 U.S. Gold version doesn't achieve this.

Like mentioned before by d4rk3lf, I just read what say Brick Nash in this thread: "Also, I'm not interested in any sort of financial return. It was just a personal goal to learn how the Amiga worked and to make something for the system I grew up with. I feel like I've achieved that."

And sorry for writing Richard Aplin's name wrong. Thanks to him for programming my childhood version

[TCD]

It is important to note that Brick Nash wrote the post in January: https://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p...&postcount=344 and not 'three years ago'.

[BigD]

Originally Posted by Flytag

...And sorry for writing Richard Aplin's name wrong. Thanks to him for programming my childhood version

My childhood version was the Atari ST one!

Does anyone know why that version had looping music (quite basic), whereas the Amiga had just sound effects? The ST's scrolling was absolutely horrible too! It felt almost like a PD version of the game at the time! It definitely didn't play like the arcade. It did have the 'get up wriggle' animation that FFE doesn't though! We really could do with that animation and also the separate dynamite animation continue screen!

[Flytag]

Originally Posted by Cris1997XX

Do you really think it would be possible with Scorpion Engine? People are struggling to convert less complex games like Wonder Boy: Monster's Lair, I think you're pretty naive...

Of course I'm naive, I don't know how to develop a game.

But that's not the subject, I wanted to say that if someone wants a version closer to the arcade visually, there are tools to do it.

[jotd]

one thing that Scorpion does wonderfully well is fake dual playfield with AGA multiplexed sprites. Which allows more than 16 colors + parallax. Impressive! I have to do this in asm too.

[Marcio D.]

Originally Posted by Flytag

And sorry for writing Richard Aplin's name wrong. Thanks to him for programming my childhood version

Oh man, I feel bad for your childhood!

In all seriousness, though, I lambast him for Final Fight, but I thank him for Double Dragon II: The Revenge which was a decent brawler on the Amiga. So I have mixed feelings about the guy.

[Marcio D.]

Originally Posted by TCD

It is important to note that Brick Nash wrote the post in January: https://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p...&postcount=344 and not 'three years ago'.

Since he wrote that only this past January, then yeah, it's clear he doesn't want any financial incentives right now.

Sorry for suggesting a Patreon. Was only trying to see how we can continue to motivate Brick Nash.

[Marcio D.]

Originally Posted by BigD

My childhood version was the Atari ST one! Does anyone know why that version had looping music (quite basic), whereas the Amiga had just sound effects? The ST's scrolling was absolutely horrible too! It felt almost like a PD version of the game at the time! It definitely didn't play like the arcade. It did have the 'get up wriggle' animation that FFE doesn't though! We really could do with that animation and also the separate dynamite animation continue screen!

I feel more sorry for you than I feel for Flytag!

I've never played the Atari ST version before, so I watched a YouTube video on it just now. You weren't kidding about the horrible scrolling... it looks like it's scrolling eight pixels at a time, like in some of those character-based 8-bit systems of old. And in that video, the game displays the message, "Atari STE hardware detected." I guess the joke is, the STE hardware is detected, but not used. Forget about the STE's blitter, LOL!

[Marcio D.]

Originally Posted by Flytag

Of course I'm naive, I don't know how to develop a game. But that's not the subject, I wanted to say that if someone wants a version closer to the arcade visually, there are tools to do it.

It's better to consider the context first, before issuing such a Karenistic directive.

If someone says, "This software is a piece of utter crap... it needs to be fixed by doing X, Y, and Z...", then maybe telling that person to develop their own software is justified.

But if a group like us are raving about the high quality of FFE, and offering some suggestions on how to further improve it, why are you compelled to tell us to make our own?

[VincentGR]

Originally Posted by Marcio D.

I feel more sorry for you than I feel for Flytag!

You shouldn't, check the CPC version.

[Marcio D.]

Originally Posted by VincentGR

You shouldn't, check the CPC version.

I did just now, and while the sprites are slow as molasses, I'd have to say that the background scrolling in this CPC version is less nausea-inducing than the scrolling in the Atari ST version!

[BigD]

Originally Posted by Marcio D.

I did just now, and while the sprites are slow as molasses, I'd have to say that the background scrolling in this CPC version is less nausea-inducing than the scrolling in the Atari ST version!

The CPC must have a game speed at least a third if the ST. Haggar can't grab opponents 9/10 times he tries! The CPC version is a walking simulator!

[haps]

Originally Posted by TCD

It's of course much better to spent time whining about somebody whining

I like this guy. I bet he played a lot of vroom.