Raspberry Pi 2 - Page 3

Enverex · 27 February 2015, 14:33

The reason some of those things were unique to the Raspberry Pi before was because it had an (ancient) ArmV6 arch core in it. The new one uses a Cortex A7 which is ArmV7, the same as (almost) all other ARM chips available, which means anything coded to work on the new Raspberry Pi (as in, has been explicitly coded for that CPU type) will work on any other ARM board. People had to work on the Pi itself almost exclusively to develop core specific things for it (e.g. emulator Dynarecs) because of its defunct arch that nothing else used, that's why some things appeared to be Pi specific - they weren't, it's just developers had to basically revive a basically dead tech.

It's unfortunate the original RPi gained so much traction as it meant a lot of people were spending time developing for that dead architecture.

But yeah, the only difference between the new Pi and other ARM boards now will be very little, primarily just the bootloader. Programs should be cross-compatible so that argument doesn't really apply anymore (it also means things developed for all the existing ARM systems will work on the RPi, albeit not as well because it's simply inferior hardware).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anubis

I don't get why not try something as cool as RPi??

Because there are simply better options. The new RPi is no different from any of the other ARM dev boards out there now.

Anubis · 27 February 2015, 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enverex

Because there are simply better options. The new RPi is no different from any of the other ARM dev boards out there now.

I can connect (and mostly daily my wife now does) my gaming laptop to TV, so nothing can beat that, but still there is place for all other 'projects', from original X-Box to RPi and RPi2. My kids love that out of box it has minecraft, but neither one of them are really into it. My daughter is 9, and she can name many Amiga characters and she loves old games just the same as new ones. Can't explain her 'woow' when she saw Monkey Island running on RetroPi.

(now that is a game in her opinion

)

Sure, there are many other boards, friend at work uses few for projects that involves local college, but biggest difference so far is that RPi did not rise price. From model A, B B+ to newest RPi2 - always get more for the same price, people recognize that...

And simple question, why did you get an Amiga when you could play games on Atari ST or IBM PC or even Mac at the time??

I am glad there is project as RPi, and will support it.

Enverex · 27 February 2015, 14:52

I'm not against the project at all, the Raspberry Pi initiative is great but the amount of times I've had to deal with people (in person) that have tried to load up lots of things on their Raspberry Pi only to find it really can't do any of those things well has gotten to me. The problem being doubly worse when they could have spent a little more and got something infinitely better.

I'm not saying buy a PC or XBox instead, just to actually look over all the ARM boards available first before blindly choosing the Raspberry Pi simply because it's a big brand name in the ARM dev board world.

alexh · 27 February 2015, 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enverex

e.g. the Odroid-U3

CEC is broken on Odroid which is why I got a Pi-2

Anubis · 27 February 2015, 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enverex

I'm not saying buy a PC or XBox instead, just to actually look over all the ARM boards available first before blindly choosing the Raspberry Pi simply because it's a big brand name in the ARM dev board world.

But if something does not work today, does not really mean it will not work tomorrow?!

There is so many uses for Raspberry Pi, and now that it can actually emulate A500, great. I hope one day will emulate better A1200 and AGA, but that does not stop me from enjoying many other aspects of RPi, from great ES that runs most of stuff I am interested at good speed to little projects for kids with Scratch etc.

I have nothing against some other boards, but some of them are just too expensive IMHO, like minimig. Sure its great project, but at what cost? And sure, bit more, and you can get real computer that will run all of this with no problem, but where is fun in that??

Sure, there are different boards out there, but name me one that has descent Amiga 1200 emulation. (no A500, witch works fine so far on RPi for 35 USD)

jbl007 · 27 February 2015, 17:03

I could imagine, the ODROID-U3 can handle A1200 emulation quite well using fs-uae-gles. But it costs a little more than $35. :-)

Enverex · 27 February 2015, 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anubis

But if something does not work today, does not really mean it will not work tomorrow?!

With the Pi 2 that's a lot more true than you think. Lots of work went into making things work in the Pi, things that previously didn't work on that Arch (ARMv6). ARMv7 has been around a long time and has been worked on a lot by a lot of parties. The reason this is significant is because this means the software you're now running on the Pi 2 has already been in development for a long time, so there are unlikely to be many (or possibly any) increases in performance on software that is currently available for it (unlike the Pi 1 where pretty much everything was being ported from scratch). This is something I worry people are taking for granted because it happened with the first one.

Anubis · 27 February 2015, 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enverex

With the Pi 2 that's a lot more true than you think. Lots of work went into making things work in the Pi, things that previously didn't work on that Arch (ARMv6). ARMv7 has been around a long time and has been worked on a lot by a lot of parties. The reason this is significant is because this means the software you're now running on the Pi 2 has already been in development for a long time, so there are unlikely to be many (or possibly any) increases in performance on software that is currently available for it (unlike the Pi 1 where pretty much everything was being ported from scratch). This is something I worry people are taking for granted because it happened with the first one.

What you saying is 'what you got today is what you will have tomorrow'?!

For some reason this community was able always to surprise me... but mostly by people who did not think like that...

Enverex · 27 February 2015, 20:29

I'm simply explaining the state of development on the different ARM architectures.

Things on ARMv7 should continue to improve, but slowly and I wouldn't expect leaps and bounds like you've seen before. As I said, you're now dealing with a mature platform, as opposed to one that almost restarted from scratch with v6 on the original Pi.

So yes and no. More yes, but lots of the things you want should already work on the RPi 2 due to existing work that has been done for other devices, but due to the RPi 2's slow nature (A7 is designed as a power saving chip, not performance also 900Mhz is very slow, even for A7s) you should... er, curb your enthusiasm is probably the best phrase, when it comes to future development.

Anubis · 27 February 2015, 20:46

I am aware how it works, but not sure if huge user base of Raspberry Pi will make difference... what do you think?

Enverex · 27 February 2015, 21:07

I'm not sure the userbase that migrates from the RPi 1 to the RPi 2 will make a significant dent considering how large the userbase is for ARMv7 devices.; Pretty much every (other) dev board is ARMv7 as are almost all phones which should give you some idea of how many people that is and how many people are already working on things.

Anubis · 04 March 2015, 19:59

Damn, you are really party pooper...

I understand, nothing new to expect, except quite opposite already has been happening... (check that other topic regarding uae4all2)

From my limited FS-UAE use, I would love to see this project have RPi2 distro as well... would be interesting...

Enverex · 04 March 2015, 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anubis

Damn, you are really party pooper...

I understand, nothing new to expect, except quite opposite already has been happening... (check that other topic regarding uae4all2)

From my limited FS-UAE use, I would love to see this project have RPi2 distro as well... would be interesting...

Regarding uae4all2, I didn't see any specific RPi 2 progress? Just progress on the original Pi (unless I'm missing it).

FS-UAE would compile on ARM but it needs 2 things for it to work well (and not fail the core compilation if that's how far it currently gets). An ARM compatible dynarec/JIT core and it needs to be ported to OpenGL-ES (from normal OpenGL). Both those things are possible, it just someone needs to deem it worth-while enough to put the time and effort into.

But again remember, with FS-UAE and the RPi 2 you want an "ARM" version, not a specific RPi 2 version, you're more likely to get the former. The RPi 2 is in no-way special now (which is a good thing, despite how it sounds) as it's part of the big generic pool of ARM devices.

BippyM · 06 July 2015, 00:36

I've just ordered one of these..

Is it worth just installing retropie? or a full linux distro and then manually install what I need?

Reason I ask is simple.. I have 0% linux knowledge

dabone · 06 July 2015, 04:11

Retropie...

I've got mine setup in a c64 with a 120gb ssd drive, and wireless adapter.

Works great, and I even wired up the db9 joystick ports.

later,
dabone

Doc · 06 July 2015, 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by bippym

Is it worth just installing retropie?

Certainly. Installation is just a matter of writing an SD-card image. Nothing to lose here.

ransom1122 · 07 July 2015, 04:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by dabone

Retropie...

I've got mine setup in a c64 with a 120gb ssd drive, and wireless adapter.

Works great, and I even wired up the db9 joystick ports.

later,
dabone

I'd love to see your setup on this, and possibly a youtube video showcasing it.

rhester72 · 09 July 2015, 20:39

Ditto - I was very much interested in gutting a broken C128 for this, in much the same way (i.e. power-on straight to VICE x128, with DB9s functional), but wasn't 100% confident that the keyboard adapter would work fully properly (i.e. 40/80 column switch, etc.). dabone, any information on your buildout would be welcomed. =)

Rodney

BippyM · 10 July 2015, 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doc

Certainly. Installation is just a matter of writing an SD-card image. Nothing to lose here.

I meant in relation to installing a fully fledged linux distro and installing my own emulators.. How difficult is this?

BuZz · 12 July 2015, 04:31

depends how comfortable you are with compiling stuff etc.

you can actually just install the retropie-setup script on top of raspbian, and then install individual emulator binaries (or build from source), although you won't get the benefit of the automatic control configuration and integration etc.

If you use a prebuilt retropie-setup image, it's still raspbian underneath - but without the desktop environment and other things that are not needed.

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27 February 2015, 14:52	#43
Enverex Fantasy Man! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: UK Posts: 1,353	I'm not against the project at all, the Raspberry Pi initiative is great but the amount of times I've had to deal with people (in person) that have tried to load up lots of things on their Raspberry Pi only to find it really can't do any of those things well has gotten to me. The problem being doubly worse when they could have spent a little more and got something infinitely better. I'm not saying buy a PC or XBox instead, just to actually look over all the ARM boards available first before blindly choosing the Raspberry Pi simply because it's a big brand name in the ARM dev board world.

27 February 2015, 17:03	#46
jbl007 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Leipzig/Germany Posts: 468	I could imagine, the ODROID-U3 can handle A1200 emulation quite well using fs-uae-gles. But it costs a little more than $35. :-)

27 February 2015, 20:29	#49
Enverex Fantasy Man! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: UK Posts: 1,353	I'm simply explaining the state of development on the different ARM architectures. Things on ARMv7 should continue to improve, but slowly and I wouldn't expect leaps and bounds like you've seen before. As I said, you're now dealing with a mature platform, as opposed to one that almost restarted from scratch with v6 on the original Pi. So yes and no. More yes, but lots of the things you want should already work on the RPi 2 due to existing work that has been done for other devices, but due to the RPi 2's slow nature (A7 is designed as a power saving chip, not performance also 900Mhz is very slow, even for A7s) you should... er, curb your enthusiasm is probably the best phrase, when it comes to future development.

27 February 2015, 20:46	#50
Anubis Retro Gamer Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Underworld Age: 51 Posts: 4,072	I am aware how it works, but not sure if huge user base of Raspberry Pi will make difference... what do you think?

27 February 2015, 21:07	#51
Enverex Fantasy Man! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: UK Posts: 1,353	I'm not sure the userbase that migrates from the RPi 1 to the RPi 2 will make a significant dent considering how large the userbase is for ARMv7 devices.; Pretty much every (other) dev board is ARMv7 as are almost all phones which should give you some idea of how many people that is and how many people are already working on things.

04 March 2015, 19:59	#52
Anubis Retro Gamer Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Underworld Age: 51 Posts: 4,072	Damn, you are really party pooper... I understand, nothing new to expect, except quite opposite already has been happening... (check that other topic regarding uae4all2) From my limited FS-UAE use, I would love to see this project have RPi2 distro as well... would be interesting...

06 July 2015, 00:36	#54
BippyM Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Derby, UK Age: 48 Posts: 9,355	I've just ordered one of these.. Is it worth just installing retropie? or a full linux distro and then manually install what I need? Reason I ask is simple.. I have 0% linux knowledge

06 July 2015, 04:11	#55
dabone Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Chattanooga TN, USA Posts: 109	Retropie... I've got mine setup in a c64 with a 120gb ssd drive, and wireless adapter. Works great, and I even wired up the db9 joystick ports. later, dabone

09 July 2015, 20:39	#58
rhester72 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: New York / USA Posts: 361	Ditto - I was very much interested in gutting a broken C128 for this, in much the same way (i.e. power-on straight to VICE x128, with DB9s functional), but wasn't 100% confident that the keyboard adapter would work fully properly (i.e. 40/80 column switch, etc.). dabone, any information on your buildout would be welcomed. =) Rodney

12 July 2015, 04:31	#60
BuZz Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Oxford / UK Age: 48 Posts: 583	depends how comfortable you are with compiling stuff etc. you can actually just install the retropie-setup script on top of raspbian, and then install individual emulator binaries (or build from source), although you won't get the benefit of the automatic control configuration and integration etc. If you use a prebuilt retropie-setup image, it's still raspbian underneath - but without the desktop environment and other things that are not needed.

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