X68000's exe to Amiga converter? - Page 3

Bruce Abbott · 26 August 2023, 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by utri007

I got impression that I just download x68000 game, and run it through this program and it is ready to run with Amiga, as it converts x68000 executables to Amiga executables.

Correct. However it might not run 100%.

jotd · 26 August 2023, 17:46

I'm under the impression that X68000 games use the OS through TRAP calls. That could be emulated once and for all using whdload/AmigaOS calls like file reads.

Apart from that, if I had to do such a conversion, I'd proceed like I do with my arcade conversions, where you have to get some understanding of how the overall game works, but some details may remain as-is and left alone running properly.

The graphics are the hardest part. Replace sprites by blits or HW sprites if possible, while selecting the best screen depth. Selecting AGA 256 colors could be super slow.

The sounds should also be adapted, with samples.

And in the end, (that is my personal point of view) if it requires a 68040 with fast mem it's not really interesting for a 2D game. I'd call that interesting if it runs on A1200 + fastmem. I would like that such conversions hit the largest possible amiga audience, even if constraining to ECS would be clearly mad.

Retro1234 · 26 August 2023, 17:58

I maybe be wrong but machines such as the NEO-GEO, everything is made of tiles, the sprites, everything - I assume this would be quite tricky.

@jotd you say uninteresting but what about likelihood and quality -AmigaInCorpse has done quite a lot of work already. All other projects are fantasy etc

jotd · 26 August 2023, 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retro1234

I maybe be wrong but machines such as the NEO-GEO, everything is made of tiles, the sprites, everything - I assume this would be quite tricky.

Yes, you're right. And there's an extra limitation on first colors too (must be black or something)

Quote:

@jotd you say uninteresting but what about likelihood and quality -AmigaInCorpse has done quite a lot of work already. All other projects are fantasy etc

He already sent me parts of the source for Galaga 90. I love this game and I would like to port it, but on the other hand I fear that it is too slow even on A1200.

gimbal · 26 August 2023, 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by kremiso

Strider

Yeah it looks arcade quality but it has the Amiga "PAH PAH PAH" sound effect :/ NO.

Retro1234 · 26 August 2023, 23:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by jotd

Yes, you're right. And there's an extra limitation on first colors too (must be black or something)

He already sent me parts of the source for Galaga 90. I love this game and I would like to port it, but on the other hand I fear that it is too slow even on A1200.

Jotd you can do it

Cris1997XX · 26 August 2023, 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by gimbal

Yeah it looks arcade quality but it has the Amiga "PAH PAH PAH" sound effect :/ NO.

How could it have the "Amiga" sound effect...? It sounds way better, I'm pretty sure they took it straight from the arcade original

Cris1997XX · 27 August 2023, 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by jotd

Yes, you're right. And there's an extra limitation on first colors too (must be black or something)

He already sent me parts of the source for Galaga 90. I love this game and I would like to port it, but on the other hand I fear that it is too slow even on A1200.

You can make it an Amiga 4000 exclusive lol

hitchhikr · 27 August 2023, 12:08

Two python scripts: https://www.hitchhikr.net/x68kconverters.zip

One to convert x68000 chunky pictures and the other one to convert the tiles pictures to RGBA png format (need numpy and pypng).

gimbal · 27 August 2023, 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cris1997XX

How could it have the "Amiga" sound effect...? It sounds way better, I'm pretty sure they took it straight from the arcade original

Except it's not true. The arcade version has very basic synthesized sound effects, you can listen for yourself on Youtube.

Unless there are different versions floating around of course.

jotd · 27 August 2023, 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by hitchhikr

Two python scripts: https://www.hitchhikr.net/x68kconverters.zip

One to convert x68000 chunky pictures and the other one to convert the tiles pictures to RGBA png format (need numpy and pypng).

that's including palettes? or machine has selectable color lookup tables?

Those kind of scripts come in handy. My bitplanelib python library can convert png to amiga bitplanes or sprites.

hitchhikr · 27 August 2023, 16:08

Yes, they handle external (or internal) palette files.

Cris1997XX · 27 August 2023, 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by gimbal

Except it's not true. The arcade version has very basic synthesized sound effects, you can listen for yourself on Youtube.

Unless there are different versions floating around of course.

Uh...actually, Strider Hiryu has voice samples in the Japanese arcade release. It's the same thing on Mega Drive, which even features the "all sons of old gods, die" line: [ Show youtube player ]

kremiso · 27 August 2023, 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by gimbal

Except it's not true. The arcade version has very basic synthesized sound effects, you can listen for yourself on Youtube.

Unless there are different versions floating around of course.

the x68000 version is based on the jap arcade version, which include yes i agree that too much invasive PAH-PAH-PAH

[ Show youtube player ]

gimbal · 27 August 2023, 23:39

That's so cool, there is a video dedicated to the very sound under discussion.

Alright, I stand corrected. Of course I only saw the US version which is blissfully silent.

hitchhikr · 01 September 2023, 06:29

Updated the archive with a third script which converts X68000 ADPCM samples into WAV files (https://www.hitchhikr.net/x68kconverters.zip).

Btw, i think you're focusing on the wrong games.

I assume you downloaded the TOSEC archive and though this was it, right ?
Well, there's much more to that machine than that, download this archive instead: https://archive.org/details/Sharp_X68000_Collection

Granted, the archive is more than 16 gigabytes but it contains more than 1000 homebrews including a lot of unofficial ports of games from other Japanese platforms (like the Famicom) & other weird stuff.

Also, I checked the machine hardware more thoroughly and I noticed several drawbacks & shortcomings in it's architecture (especially regarding the CPU & the VRAM), I also checked these so-called 1:1 arcade CPS1 ports, they aren't really 1:1 ports, and even if the code for the Sharp computers was optimized to death they still suffer from slowdowns on the base machines and don't contain every elements from the originals.

The X68000 is a powerful machine alright, but it's not as "almighty" as you may think it is.

And if you're interested here's the point of view of a Japanese demoscener talking about how the Amiga was received in Japan and how it was compared to the X68000 back then: https://yosshin4004-github-io.transl..._x_tr_pto=wapp

f.

jotd · 01 September 2023, 08:55

very interesting. And the optimization job which has been done could be interesting for amiga ports too.

hitchhikr · 01 September 2023, 09:35

Added a fourth script which converts X68000 65536 colors pictures to png (still: (https://www.hitchhikr.net/x68kconverters.zip).

hitchhikr · 01 September 2023, 09:52

Quote:

And the optimization job which has been done could be interesting for amiga ports too.

Yes and no, it would be certainly useful to have the data well separated but the optimizations are very specific to the X68000 which VRAM (at least the Graphics Layers one which is used the most for action games) is interleaved (a bit like the one on the Atari ST but 16 bit chunky based, not bits).

copse · 01 September 2023, 10:03

Geograph Seal from the github article looks quite good for all the mentioned concerns also in there about better 3D on Amiga.

[ Show youtube player ]

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26 August 2023, 17:46	#42
jotd This cat is no more Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: FRANCE Age: 52 Posts: 8,369	I'm under the impression that X68000 games use the OS through TRAP calls. That could be emulated once and for all using whdload/AmigaOS calls like file reads. Apart from that, if I had to do such a conversion, I'd proceed like I do with my arcade conversions, where you have to get some understanding of how the overall game works, but some details may remain as-is and left alone running properly. The graphics are the hardest part. Replace sprites by blits or HW sprites if possible, while selecting the best screen depth. Selecting AGA 256 colors could be super slow. The sounds should also be adapted, with samples. And in the end, (that is my personal point of view) if it requires a 68040 with fast mem it's not really interesting for a 2D game. I'd call that interesting if it runs on A1200 + fastmem. I would like that such conversions hit the largest possible amiga audience, even if constraining to ECS would be clearly mad.

26 August 2023, 17:58	#43
Retro1234 Phone Homer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: 5150 Posts: 5,813	I maybe be wrong but machines such as the NEO-GEO, everything is made of tiles, the sprites, everything - I assume this would be quite tricky. @jotd you say uninteresting but what about likelihood and quality -AmigaInCorpse has done quite a lot of work already. All other projects are fantasy etc

27 August 2023, 12:08	#49
hitchhikr Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: somewhere else Posts: 524	Two python scripts: https://www.hitchhikr.net/x68kconverters.zip One to convert x68000 chunky pictures and the other one to convert the tiles pictures to RGBA png format (need numpy and pypng).

27 August 2023, 16:08	#52
hitchhikr Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: somewhere else Posts: 524	Yes, they handle external (or internal) palette files.

27 August 2023, 23:39	#55
gimbal cheeky scoundrel Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Spijkenisse/Netherlands Age: 42 Posts: 6,973	That's so cool, there is a video dedicated to the very sound under discussion. Alright, I stand corrected. Of course I only saw the US version which is blissfully silent.

01 September 2023, 06:29	#56
hitchhikr Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: somewhere else Posts: 524	Updated the archive with a third script which converts X68000 ADPCM samples into WAV files (https://www.hitchhikr.net/x68kconverters.zip). Btw, i think you're focusing on the wrong games. I assume you downloaded the TOSEC archive and though this was it, right ? Well, there's much more to that machine than that, download this archive instead: https://archive.org/details/Sharp_X68000_Collection Granted, the archive is more than 16 gigabytes but it contains more than 1000 homebrews including a lot of unofficial ports of games from other Japanese platforms (like the Famicom) & other weird stuff. Also, I checked the machine hardware more thoroughly and I noticed several drawbacks & shortcomings in it's architecture (especially regarding the CPU & the VRAM), I also checked these so-called 1:1 arcade CPS1 ports, they aren't really 1:1 ports, and even if the code for the Sharp computers was optimized to death they still suffer from slowdowns on the base machines and don't contain every elements from the originals. The X68000 is a powerful machine alright, but it's not as "almighty" as you may think it is. And if you're interested here's the point of view of a Japanese demoscener talking about how the Amiga was received in Japan and how it was compared to the X68000 back then: https://yosshin4004-github-io.transl..._x_tr_pto=wapp f.

01 September 2023, 08:55	#57
jotd This cat is no more Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: FRANCE Age: 52 Posts: 8,369	very interesting. And the optimization job which has been done could be interesting for amiga ports too.

01 September 2023, 09:35	#58
hitchhikr Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: somewhere else Posts: 524	Added a fourth script which converts X68000 65536 colors pictures to png (still: (https://www.hitchhikr.net/x68kconverters.zip).

01 September 2023, 10:03	#60
copse Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Lala Land Posts: 604	Geograph Seal from the github article looks quite good for all the mentioned concerns also in there about better 3D on Amiga. [ Show youtube player ]

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