Another new A500+ bmotherboard

[SukkoPera]

Kipper, my friend, DO YOU F**KING READ THE POSTS BEFORE YOU REPLY TO THEM???

I SAID I WILL LET YOU SELL THE MODIFIED BOARD, WHAT'S THE PROBLEM WITH THAT??? And we can talk about any other details you wish.

You really made me lose my patience.

Also, there are currently no approved sellers, everybody who's currently selling the board is doing it against my will.

Those who have sold it in the past (and again, there's only one: sordan) have explicitly agreed to do so at a price I deemed fair. IIRC Sordan was selling it at about 29€, i.e.: almost half the price of an A500++. Part of that also went to charity (they donated to me and I turn over all donations to charities, there's proof on ko-fi).

[kipper2k]

Originally Posted by SukkoPera

Kipper, my friend, DO YOU F**KING READ THE POSTS BEFORE YOU REPLY TO THEM???

I SAID I WILL LET YOU SELL THE MODIFIED BOARD, WHAT'S THE PROBLEM WITH THAT??? And we can talk about any other details you wish.

You really made me lose my patience.

Also, there are currently no approved sellers, everybody who's currently selling the board is doing it against my will.

Those who have sold it in the past (and again, there's only one: sordan) have explicitly agreed to do so at a price I deemed fair. IIRC Sordan was selling it at about 29€, i.e.: almost half the price of an A500++. Part of that also went to charity (they donated to me and I turn over all donations to charities, there's proof on ko-fi).

I do not want to sell boards publically and at most sell 5 completed boards to recoup costs, i had only intentions of letting other people sell, You cannot control who is selling these so allow everyone to sell and competition will allow a fair price. Commodore couldnt control piracy and we dont have a chance so open it up. i see it on ebay and other places. Does N. America have an "approved" seller. people will not pay shipping from Europe for obvious reasons. The more you try to control accessability the people will opt for the easier method

[SukkoPera]

I have tried to find sellers all over the world. All I asked them was to keep the price under 35€ and to make a donation to a charity (or to me, I would later turn it over). They all refused (except Sordan, great guys BTW).

Yes, I have been trying to control pricing in order to keep it low for the benefit of the users. If you don't think this is fair, I don't mind. I would have liked to hear your solution if you had another one but you never reached out to me. Enjoy your project.

[kipper2k]

5 boards delivered to Canada is 165 euro inclusive ,not including import fees i can see why the refuse

[SukkoPera]

If you mean to sell, ordering just 5 is silly. Try ordering 20 at least and see how the price per board goes down. You can quickly get to 8€ per board or less. A 20€ markup with basically 0 effort sounds more than reasonable to me.

[kipper2k]

Originally Posted by SukkoPera

If you mean to sell, ordering just 5 is silly. Try ordering 20 at least and see how the price per board goes down. You can quickly get to 8€ per board or less.

UPS etc would just love you, for 20 boards plus Revenue Canada will tax higher to the higher import costs, you cant win, (at least not here). I personally cannot tie all that money down on the hope of selling 20 boards

[SukkoPera]

Just did a simulation on JLCPCB: 20 boards shipped to Canada with all duties paid are 366€. That's 18 €/board. With my capped price of 35€, that gives a 17€ markup per board (49%).

Not enough? 30 boards are 512€, i.e. 17 €/board and 18€ markup (51%).

Sure, whoever would sell these would have to pay taxes but they will have had zero effort as they haven't spent a single second in R&D and can refer customers to forums for support. Also the initial investment looks really affordable and quickly recoverable (you should have seen the pile of boards the A500++ seller once had, they must have been HUNDREDS, can't find that pic anymore unfortunately).

It all still looks very reasonable to me, but no one has even tried to negotiate anyway, they just said a plain "no".

EDIT: Sorry, messed up USD with EUR.

[kipper2k]

Originally Posted by SukkoPera

Just did a simulation on JLCPCB: 20 boards shipped to Canada with all duties paid are 366€. That's 18 €/board. With my capped price of 35€, that gives a 17€ markup per board (49%).

Not enough? 30 boards are 512€, i.e. 17 €/board and 18€ markup (51%).

Sure, whoever would sell these would have to pay taxes but they will have had zero effort as they haven't spent a single second in R&D and can refer customers to forums for support. Also the initial investment looks really affordable and quickly recoverable (you should have seen the pile of boards the A500++ seller once had, they must have been HUNDREDS, can't find that pic anymore unfortunately).

It all still looks very reasonable to me, but no one has even tried to negotiate anyway, they just said a plain "no".

EDIT: Sorry, messed up USD with EUR.

Partially assembling your boards with all caps,beads resistors etc makes for a really good price, all the passive components are available and some logic chips too. It would make it very attractive to people. Judging by the amount of stripped down motherboards on ebay a lot of people are swapping out chips. For 8372a and 8375 compatibility a SN74CBT16233 can be used with a simple toggle switch

[SukkoPera]

Of course the capped price for the pre-assembled board would be higher then 35€.

IMHO all the 74xxx chips should be switched to SOIC and preassembled, too.

It would also be great if the hybrid could be moved to the board and pre-assembled in turn.

[kipper2k]

Originally Posted by SukkoPera

Of course the capped price for the pre-assembled board would be higher then 35€.

IMHO all the 74xxx chips should be switched to SOIC and preassembled, too.

It would also be great if the hybrid could be moved to the board and pre-assembled in turn.

I am moving away from the socketed 74xx logic chips, very flaaky, i now verify they work with my chip tester and solder directly to the board

[SukkoPera]

SOIC is a surface-mount package.

[kipper2k]

Originally Posted by SukkoPera

SOIC is a surface-mount package.

someone just sent me this link of an earlier board you done under a free to use licensing, is this one working or does it need fixes, i know it is missing a few extras, but that is fine

https://github.com/SukkoPera/Raemixx...d580d8f413b115

[seb132]

Great project, Kipper2k - I love it.
I see also a mechanical keyboard on the first picture, is it your design too?
To me you can add whatever you like but if a clockport is doable then it would be great to implement the A314cp directly... a lovely device.

[SukkoPera]

Originally Posted by kipper2k

someone just sent me this link of an earlier board you done under a free to use licensing, is this one working or does it need fixes, i know it is missing a few extras, but that is fine

https://github.com/SukkoPera/Raemixx...d580d8f413b115

Come on Kipper, are you really unable to read any text that is longer than a single line?

That is an earlier, in-development version of the board. I don't know why they picked exactly that commit, but anyway it contains licensing terms just like any other version. The license at that time was the CERN OHL v1.2 (see LICENSE.pdf there) with an additional price cap clause, which in practice doesn't change things much wrt the current version: you would still have to release all the design files and you have limited commercial use (and I wouldn't waive this clause, while I would waive the NC restriction on the current board).

I think it would also be quite dumb to redo all your work on an old, untested (yes, it needs fixes), in-development version missing all the improvements and useful mods we later put in place, not to mention the extreme testing done by Edoardo on the final V2, in order to achieve... what??? I said we can talk of any terms but still you haven't tried to reach out to me. I really don't understanding your point.

So maybe the "smart guy" who sent you this link isn't that smart, after all.

[kipper2k]

Originally Posted by SukkoPera

Come on Kipper, are you really unable to read any text that is longer than a single line?

That is an earlier, in-development version of the board. I don't know why they picked exactly that commit, but anyway it contains licensing terms just like any other version. The license at that time was the CERN OHL v1.2 (see LICENSE.pdf there) with an additional price cap clause, which in practice doesn't change things much wrt the current version: you would still have to release all the design files and you have limited commercial use (and I wouldn't waive this clause, while I would waive the NC restriction on the current board).

I think it would also be quite dumb to redo all your work on an old, untested (yes, it needs fixes), in-development version missing all the improvements and useful mods we later put in place, not to mention the extreme testing done by Edoardo on the final V2, in order to achieve... what??? I said we can talk of any terms but still you haven't tried to reach out to me. I really don't understanding your point.

So maybe the "smart guy" who sent you this link isn't that smart, after all.

Using the v2 board i would release gerbers and links to all open source additions that i added. i have not used the editor and will not use the editor, if you dont agree to this then it is a non starter.

I do not care about the price as i wont be selling, but if i did it would be partially assembled so the cost would be $10 for the board and the rest for components, assembly etc. Just let people sell it if they want to, there would be people chomping at the bit for these addons and you wont allow them, Your board is great, you already said it has run its course as there are no more being bought. Open it up so people can upgrade and help the community.

I do not have the funds to buy 20 at a time living as an OAP. I cannot afford to tie up that much money on something that may/may not sell and i do not want hassles of mailing etc ever since i got burnt so ultimately all my projects now are small with only a few people in Canada still interested in the Amiga

[Lemaru]

He hasn't said he won't agree the add-ons, just that if any changes are made then all source files need to be released (not just the gerbers)

I dont see why there's an issue releasing the files. Do the mods, release all the files as per the license, and sell some boards to recoup costs. Though if you are not going to sell anyway, why the big issue with releasing the source files? I don't get it.

As for the selling, if the files are released, people can do as they have been with the existing boards. Doong group buys, sharing orders between friends and split the costs, share with use groups, etc etc. There's plenty of ways to go about sharing without being commercial/for profit

And I don't think anyone said the board has run its course, only that Sordan have currently not ordered more for sale..I suspect it's hard to sell too many when people can easily get them made by JLC or whoever for less. I've seen people post their builds recently so there is definitely still people building them.

I doubt there's that big a demand as people think as many have already built a Raemixx or A500++.

[kipper2k]

Originally Posted by Lemaru

He hasn't said he won't allow the add-ons, just that if any changes are made then all source files need to be released (not just the gerbers)

I dont see why there's an issue releasing the files. Do the mods, release all the files as per the license, and sell some boards to recoup costs. Though if you are not going to sell anyway, why the big issue with releasing the source files? I don't get it.

I doubt there's that big a demand as people think as many have already built a Raemixx or A500++.

i just said that i will release gerbers and links, just allow people to sell, not everyone can do the builds and no one would be interested in helping people who cant solder due to the scope of work. if only a few people have control then guess what happens to prices... (check out prices of 8375 Agnus now

example... https://www.ebay.ca/itm/175497526986...Bk9SR-iWm-KmYg

[Lemaru]

If people don't sell for profit or financial gain then its not really commercial use. The current Raemixx board has done ok under that licence apart from certain individuals charging like £400 to £500 for one.

As for the Agnus. That's steep, even Analogic is cheaper than that (and they are known to be expensive). Whatever happened to the Agnus replacement projects? There's been several posted and teased but nothing since

[kipper2k]

Originally Posted by Lemaru

If people don't sell for profit or financial gain then its not really commercial use. The current Raemixx board has done ok under that licence apart from certain individuals charging like £400 to £500 for one.

As for the Agnus. That's steep, even Analogic is cheaper than that (and they are known to be expensive). Whatever happened to the Agnus replacement projects? There's been several posted and teased but nothing since

for agnus, mechanical side is done, layout done, coding is slow due to ongoing Buffie work. Define commercial use, is it a storefront or a hobbyist or both ?

[SukkoPera]

Originally Posted by kipper2k

Using the v2 board i would release gerbers and links to all open source additions that i added. i have not used the editor and will not use the editor, if you dont agree to this then it is a non starter.

What does that mean? How can you make changes without using the editor???

Originally Posted by kipper2k

I do not care about the price as i wont be selling, but if i did it would be partially assembled so the cost would be $10 for the board and the rest for components, assembly etc. Just let people sell it if they want to, there would be people chomping at the bit for these addons and you wont allow them, Your board is great, you already said it has run its course as there are no more being bought. Open it up so people can upgrade and help the community.

The board IS already open, under GPL-alike restrictions. It is NOT open as in "do whatever you want with it" and will never be. I already explained why, and you can just read the GPL. It can be sold, at a price that I deem fair, and I demonstrated this above. Of course an assembled one would need a higher price.

Originally Posted by kipper2k

I do not have the funds to buy 20 at a time living as an OAP. I cannot afford to tie up that much money on something that may/may not sell and i do not want hassles of mailing etc ever since i got burnt so ultimately all my projects now are small with only a few people in Canada still interested in the Amiga

As I have said multiple times, I am inclined to just waive the NC restriction to whoever does a significant contribution to the board.