06 February 2021, 22:08 | #41 |
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Yeah you're right,but the snes has another advantage for SF2, it has a third background layer .
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06 February 2021, 22:10 | #42 | |
Lemon. / Core Design
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Quote:
But we're not talking about the advantage of the SNES here... we're talking about how we get as close to it as visually possible on a 1985 computer This does mean there have to be compromises in certain areas. |
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06 February 2021, 22:12 | #43 |
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Yes, and can't wait to see what you can do with the old OCS amiga,for now i'am impressed by what you have shown, even if it's a mockup based on the amiga features .
I'am impatient to see if this can be done on the real thing . |
06 February 2021, 22:19 | #44 | |
Going nowhere
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Location: United Kingdom
Age: 50
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Quote:
Elfmania, they could do whatever they wanted, exploit advantages and limitations of the OCS hardware. With SF2, it has to have a certain look, it has to use certain colours, it has to sound a certain way...... none of those contraints on an original product for Amiga, hence why so many original games on Amiga look so good. |
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06 February 2021, 22:19 | #45 | |||
Pixelglass/Reimagine
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Quote:
However you could (perhaps) get better detail this way than just using 3 colors (as you do with sprites), even if the sprites palette can use different hues. In the arcade version f.e. the back building does seem to share similar hues with the foreground, unlike the SNES version. Quote:
Quote:
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06 February 2021, 22:38 | #46 |
Lemon. / Core Design
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Tier 5
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Maybe it does on that level, seems there's different things going on on different levels?
On Ken's level, the boat moves up and down, but the other backgrond elements seem totally fixed (background boat, horizon, clouds etc...) Anyway, I am basing my stuff on the SNES... anything extra I can find time to do will be a bonus |
06 February 2021, 22:48 | #47 | |
Lemon. / Core Design
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Not sure we will have the copper capacity to do a per line shift. In dual playfield we don't have the luxury of 8 pixel copper instructions, so options are more limited there |
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06 February 2021, 22:50 | #48 | |
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Rough calculation: it's running 6BPL Dual Playfield, so one Copper move every 16 pixels during display. Assuming 128 pixels of sprite data/4 colours for the bars you can load 16 registers in that time. This would be equivalent to 5 sprites reloaded (1x position, 2x data) or a total of 208 pixels of sprite imagery that can be displayed there. But we can do even better: during the 5 new sprites being displayed (80 pixels), 5 more Copper moves can be done. As we still had one left from the previous run (16>5*3 ) we can add one more reloaded sprite into the mix for a total status bar width of 224 pixels. Requires repositioning of all 8 sprite channels at the end of the scanline though. And this effect will most definitely work as I've already done something almost exactly like this. Question is if we have enough Copper moves. You need 8 for the Copper colour reloading, 8 for the sprite reset and 21 for the Sprite drawing. For 6BPL@304px wide, you normally would have space for 37 Copper moves so it should just fit. Except you probably need to use a Wait instruction to time the sprite drawing so you'll probably end at a maximum of 208 pixels of sprite data (and room for a spare Copper move for ehh, something). Limitations: uses all sprite channels during that area and costs a bit of DMA. Plus, all the reloaded sprite data needs to be changed in the Copper list rather than using just DMA for sprites. |
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06 February 2021, 22:56 | #49 | |
Lemon. / Core Design
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Quote:
If it helps, the screen will be 256 pixels wide (272 actual fetch width for scrolling), so we get a few more copper instructions per line The advantages of sprites, is that it doesn't need to be updated completely each frame... only need to update what changes, and even then can do it on a cycle (one "element" each frame) Defnitely worth a try though.. as having this info displayed on the playfield is going to require a complete redraw each frame! I did dynamic sprite reloading in De Profundis, in the intro, there are 4 bitplanes (with the newspaper), and the text is done with HW sprites (16 per line) Last edited by DanScott; 06 February 2021 at 23:06. |
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06 February 2021, 23:01 | #50 |
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I think that Parasol Stars uses a similar idea, but just for one BPL of one sprite (move one sprite, reload one BPL of data). Works in 4BPL, but not 6BPL. This idea (i.e. the one I posted/you used in the intro of De Profundis) will work, as long as you let the sprite DMA do the fetching for the first 128 pixels.
Anyway, it will help get to 224 pixels, but not more. The issue is reloading the sprites as they are being displayed. The extra Copper time means we won't have to bother chopping off the last possible sprite to make the wait fit and can do whatever other effects we need easier but it won't increase the reload speed. Only dropping to 5 or 4 BPL would do that and we can't do that Last edited by roondar; 06 February 2021 at 23:06. |
07 February 2021, 12:14 | #51 |
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07 February 2021, 12:32 | #52 |
Lemon. / Core Design
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07 February 2021, 12:35 | #53 | |
Lemon. / Core Design
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Quote:
The snes seems to have a 200 pixel high playfield displayed in a 192 high window, so only seems so scroll 8 pixels vertically... the building appears to shift by just 3 or 4.. it's very subtle, but IS there.. and is something we can do |
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07 February 2021, 12:37 | #54 |
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07 February 2021, 12:59 | #55 |
Lemon. / Core Design
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Yeah, I'd imagine a cymbal sample pack might have some cymbal samples in it...
Can we keep on topic please ! |
07 February 2021, 13:19 | #56 |
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The screenshots look really good, very close to SNES quality.
Will the demo have moving characters? If you need some more animation frames mapped to this 8 color palette, then just tell which characters and what animations you want, and I can convert them. |
09 February 2021, 20:08 | #57 |
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About the sprite size, I recomend to use the SNES graphics size. Arcade graphics are too big.
With 16 colours I did this conversion, you can see all the characters look very well with the same palette(and the backgrounds have the same palette as well. It is a gif image, if someone want it, ask me. https://ibb.co/nsL1jgy About the music, DJ Metune got the SF2 Ryu stage music with the exact arcade instruments translate to a 60k module (I can say, it sound incredibly amazing, much better than any other SF2 song you heard on Amiga), it uses mostly 3 channels. Ask him. |
09 February 2021, 20:19 | #58 |
J.M.D - Bedroom Musician
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Toni, i know you don;t like my methods
(that rely a lot on the brain filling up missing parts and sound effects keeping the focus of attention) but once i get rid of some real life annoyance want to test some two channel tunes! |
10 February 2021, 10:11 | #59 | |
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Quote:
I think, make the RYU song better than DJ Metune in 60k, sounding like the arcade, using mostly 3 channels, is almost impossible to make it better. |
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10 February 2021, 10:19 | #60 |
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Please guys, about the sound effects, there is a nice sound mixing routine that mix fixed frequency samples with very low CPU usage (like 5%) where you can get up to 3 samples mixed at once in one Amiga channel.
Check here [ Show youtube player ] The best is, you can use all the samples from Fast memory, so, it won't take the chip memory at all. We are using this routine on our new Amiga OCS game and it works amazingly well. |
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