02 March 2024, 21:22 | #41 | |
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I completed TKG back in the day so its not impossible obviously, but what is needed to feel enjoyable instead of sluggish and borderline frustrating. |
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02 March 2024, 21:36 | #42 |
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Today's frame rates are also driven by today's gameplay which is very different. Fast play against other actual players, often with realistic (or aiming for realistic) physics and ballistics.
AB3D games are closer to survival horror, much slower paced. To that end, you'll notice that I keep the frame rate to 25fps in my captures. I think the game needs significant overhaul for 50fps as a target. |
02 March 2024, 21:39 | #43 |
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Back on topic, I think AB3D2 engine could be used for very different settings. I did think about something Wolfenstein esque, escape from a big old Nazi castle type thing.
Maybe there's a good use for that cobblestone texture... |
02 March 2024, 22:22 | #44 | ||
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On the other hand I also agree that the pace itself plays a significant role. When all stuff move slowly on screen by default and most enemies are not very energetic and the action never becomes frantic, difficulty is not affected as much. |
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02 March 2024, 22:28 | #45 | |
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03 March 2024, 01:48 | #46 | |
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Lets not get carried away, I said 12 fps was probably ”playable” but on a regular 060 you are looking at single digits fps a lot in AB3d2, even with the new improvements. What I found fascinating with DREAD/GRiND was how the artwork was adopted to 2x1 to look better that it normally would. Maybe something like that could be applied to TKG along with some other tweaks (widescreen) to get it more usable on lesser hardware? |
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03 March 2024, 08:41 | #47 |
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03 March 2024, 11:30 | #48 | |
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It would be interesting to know the speed you get for the same areas tested in @amipals video here. For the original game levels the updated engine was turning out a significantly improved performance. |
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03 March 2024, 14:43 | #49 | |
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I've experienced this issue myself back in 1999 with Quake3 already. My CRT monitor had the typical refresh rates going up to 100/120 Hz depending on resolution. I eventually got an EIZO that had about 140 Hz at 640x480 (don't recall exact number after quarter century now) Playing Quake3 at 100+ Hz was waaaay easier than at mere 60 fps because of 2 things: - fast movement - fast rotation And that was 1999. I'm sure we could find some earlier examples than Quake3, but for me, Quake 3 showed how 100+ Hz really matters for playing FPS games. Once you play FPS at 100 Hz/100 fps, you'll never go to 30 fps, it's just ridiculous. But yes, AB3D is a different pace, so it doesn't need 120 Hz.... |
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03 March 2024, 14:46 | #50 | |
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I think the best use of AB3D2 would be for some turn-based game, where framerate is, basically, irrelevant. Just need to make the GUI update at 60 fps, the 3D background can be at 10 fps , that's fine. I've played plenty turn-based games on PC at 9 fps, and it's OK. |
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03 March 2024, 21:18 | #51 |
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this is not really the thread to discuss this, but...
I think peoples expectations of what is possible on an amiga from the early 90's is crazy. the copy speed from fast ram to chip on an AGA machine is ~5.5mb/s which means copying a 320*256 screen takes ~75% of 1 frame (15ms). leaving 5ms to run the game code if you want to achieve 50 fps, so at best you could ever hope is to get the game loop down to 25ms and get 25fps. which for something as complex as AB3D2 on 'real' silicon 100mhz 060, I think is unachievable. edit: IMHO 16fps is a more realistic goal for full screen 1*1 on the fastest (100mhz) 060 machines in Lowres 320*256 AGA with RTG being only slightly faster. Last edited by abu_the_monkey; 03 March 2024 at 21:42. |
03 March 2024, 22:53 | #52 | |
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Rabidgerry mentioned that 15-25 was acceptable not "flying" but that is his subjective opinion about how he enjoys FPS games. Like me, he has a 100MHz 060 to play on, so that's naturally what you'd play TKG on if you could. Someone claiming if flies on 030 raises some eybrows... Anyhoo, that being said, the OP was asking for something that can be modded. From that perspective, the modder still has a lot of options regarding what game to build, how complex.. So I guess a lot of parameters that will decide the final performance. But out of the engines listed, TKG is probably the most demanding, so if the OP has a larger audience in mind, GRIND or GLOOM are probably better suited. Then again it could be down to what type of game is imagined in the first place and maybe the engine would be chose according to how well it does the desired job. Now I also want to ask this question about TKG, I guess, its for @abu & @Karlos Would it be doable to add a proper 16:9 mode -option where the weapon is fully visible and not "cut off" at the bottom and fill out the black space with some GUI stuff so that it looks nice in order to save some vertical pixels and increase performance? ;-) |
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03 March 2024, 23:08 | #53 | |
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edit: doing it proper would probably be also doable but require more work. I will look over it but no promises. Last edited by abu_the_monkey; 04 March 2024 at 00:17. |
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04 March 2024, 01:14 | #54 |
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For me something doesn't add up. On the video posted by amipal, he was getting around 10-15fps fullscreen on AGA on a 50MHz 060. At 2/3 size, it was up to 30 in some simpler locations
Is there something about your 060 boards that's the issue here? I'd expect better than what is being reported for 100MHz. Some screenshots or capture would be informative. For the wide-screen all you need to do is to be able to raise the model view for the weapon slightly and use the letterbox in conjunction. |
04 March 2024, 02:23 | #55 |
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Since there's an editor working, isn't it just a matter of designer creating the levels now ?
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04 March 2024, 08:42 | #56 |
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04 March 2024, 09:31 | #57 | |
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The old method using ScrollVPort would update the screen at any time (which caused some graphic artifacts) I assume that it now has to wait till the buffer is flipped successfully which could cause reduced performance? |
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04 March 2024, 10:11 | #58 | |
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04 March 2024, 16:36 | #59 | |
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Well Im sure there are noticable differences between boards. One of my 060 is on a TF1260 with old Firmware and that one is definitely slower than my Apollo 1260 board. Then you have TFs with latest firmware, old Blizzards and Warp1260 which should be the fastest. On A4000 I only have experience with the BFG9060 which I have myself. But yea, stating its running on a 060 isnt really enough. Some boards really are faster than others. I can record and post some videos at some point. |
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04 March 2024, 16:55 | #60 | |
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By any chance, does AB3DII have some sort of benchmark that could be simply run, just like Quake1's timedemo ? |
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