Breakthru Amiga - Released!

[TjLaZer]

Can the WHDLoad slave be updated to allow SPACE bar to jump?

[Bren McGuire]

buy a 2 button controller mate it's 2024 we've had them for 30+ years

Originally Posted by TjLaZer

Can the WHDLoad slave be updated to allow SPACE bar to jump?

[BigD]

Originally Posted by TjLaZer

Can the WHDLoad slave be updated to allow SPACE bar to jump?

Space bar to jump in 2024! Seriously?!? I haven't done that since Robocop and it sucked then! I guess you stuck with the A500 and 512KB when the A1200 came out too?

Edit: Oh you're American so scrub the A500 and A1200 comment. I guess you stuck with the A2000 even when the A3000/4000 were released. Up for jump forever!!!!

[acidbottle]

@TjLaZer yeah, kinda sorry but there is no plans to add a spacebar to jump. If I could incorporate the jump into an existing 1 button config I would gladly do it. It just isn't really feasible to play the game that way.

You would forever be smashing the spacebar (or whatever key assigned) as it is such a fundamental game mechanic and used constantly. For 1 buttons, I have not completely dismissed the idea, but maybe at some point down the line.

2 button controllers are easy to come by for a few bucks, not just for this game but many games make use of them now, both old and new. Treat yourself!

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions, good or bad. Really appreciate you downloading the game and giving this somewhat long lost classic a bash!

[TjLaZer]

It’s fine. Some of us don’t have a 2 button joystick. Yes, even in 2024.

The Commodore 64 version of the game uses the space bar. Just thought it would help people who don’t have a 2 button joystick. No need to get all twisted.

[jotd]

or maybe left mouse button? I used to change project X weapons with my foot...

[sokolovic]

I must say that it seems very awkward to me to ask a designer to butcher its game playability by forcing an uncanny 1 button joystick + keyboard control. Some games just can't be played correctly with a 1 button joystick.
A 2 button pad isn't that much a recquirement. It is not like it was mandatory to have a pistorm to be able to run the game.

You should really get one. Not only for this game but to enjoy the many Amiga games that use it. The Amiga support multi button till 1985.

[jotd]

full keyboard control can be fine too. I often include it in my ports, since those games require good precision, and keyboard is way more accurate than a bad joystick.

That said, Karate Champ requires a CD32 pad (or 2 joysticks, but that 1 player mode only). I can't imagine adapting it to joystick + 1 button, or keyboard...

[alkis21]

I hear what you are saying and the last thing I want to be is ungrateful. The man did a fantastic work and deserves nothing but praise.

It's not that I am too cheap to buy a two-button joystick. It's that I've been using the same joystick since 1990, and nothing I've ever tried comes close (see this thread for more info), so I really do not want or need a different Amiga joystick. And of course I can always play it on WinUAE with my six-button USB joystick, but that would feel no different than playing the MAME version. I'd really like to be able to play it on my 1084S with my Tomahawk stick.

Butcher? Forcing? Certainly not, I only requested it as an option, not as a change. If acidbottle does not feel like implementing it that is fine, I'm still grateful for the port. There is no need for the rest of you to attack or ridicule those those of us who would welcome the option.

[paul1981]

Originally Posted by TjLaZer

It’s fine. Some of us don’t have a 2 button joystick. Yes, even in 2024.

The Commodore 64 version of the game uses the space bar. Just thought it would help people who don’t have a 2 button joystick. No need to get all twisted.

That's a good idea and yes, we don't all have 2-button joysticks or pads. I have a couple of megadrive pads but they're kaput really, so get very little use (can't do diagonals). My favourite pad is the TechnoPlus Star Fighter (again, single button with extra turbo fire).
I think it's possible to get a lot of functionality out of just one fire button though, given a bit of thought. Two is better however, of course.

[Cris1997XX]

How about homebrew developers add support for both control styles so that everyone can finally stop arguing like kids?

[acidbottle]

Well, because adding keyboard functionality is not always straightforward, primarily.

Scorpion does not have native keyboard control support, I believe earok needs to code this in assembler and is not going to happen anytime soon.

There will be a way to hack key support and as JOTD says, full keys is better than key and controller, at least the irony is that when game testing I use keyboard on winuae!

When I have added full key support or something will post here and zone it, may not be this week or anything but stay tuned.

[BigD]

Originally Posted by Cris1997XX

How about homebrew developers add support for both control styles so that everyone can finally stop arguing like kids?

How about the 1-button Luddites stop acting like the penny pinching Commodore marketing/product development department and actually BUY (I know that in the X-Copy/WHDownload.com infused Amiga-world that's a weird concept) a NEW 2-button (at least) joystick/pad? THis would be WORTHY of the fantastic game computer that the Amiga is rather than leaning on the developers to compromise their vision for original games/ports to serve their stinginess!

Originally Posted by alkis21

There is no need for the rest of you to attack or ridicule those those of us who would welcome the option.

Fine, it's force of habit but are you seriously saying that playing Robocop (a 1988 game) where spacebar is used for jump or even Turrican where space bar is for the two energy beam special weapon is acceptable in 2024? Were you personally upset when THEA500 Mini shipped with the perfectly serviceable THEGAMEPAD rather than a Quickshot 2 or equivalent? Time moves on, either upgrade to play the latest thing or keep playing your "up for jump" classics!

[saimon69]

Unfortunately is not that straight forward because most peole that comes to retro comes for the recreation of the experience they had when young; while a certain amount might be sensitive to the two button debate others will simply have their own old favorite one button stick and unwilling to compromise - and i say that with a darn three button joystick made with arcade machine pieces at home!

I envision a mounting pressure on Earok to add keyboard support - also for other projects not so arcade oriented

[sokolovic]

Well that is respectable and understandable if people wants to play games like they have played it in the past, and they can. For new Amiga games, developpers should'nt be bothered with this limitation .
I really don't understand how is it possible to stay with a 1 button joystick by 2024 and asks NEW games to be played in this configuration even if that means destroying the playability of the game .

[saimon69]

Originally Posted by sokolovic

Well that is respectable and understandable if people wants to play games like they have played it in the past, and they can. For new Amiga games, developpers should'nt be bothered with this limitation .
I really don't understand how is it possible to stay with a 1 button joystick by 2024 and asks NEW games to be played in this configuration even if that means destroying the playability of the game .

Because for me and you Amiga is a dynamic and alive system, for those instead Amiga is a memory frozen in time, they don't have the retro tinkerer mindset (or have/consider spending the money to get a new joystick, YMMV)

[sokolovic]

Originally Posted by saimon69

Because for me and you Amiga is a dynamic and alive system, for those instead Amiga is a memory frozen in time, they don't have the retro tinkerer mindset (or have/consider spending the money to get a new joystick, YMMV)

Probably, but note that I was using 2 buttons sticks/pad even in the early 90"s. That wasn't so uncommon even by then. I still have a 2 button konix speedking from that era. Great design btw.

Something I can't stand in YT videos is comments saying that Amiga was plagued with this 1 button playability when in fact it wasn't. Just an user choice most of the time, and a definitive user choice by now when almost every games are patched thanks to WHDload.

[Bren McGuire]

mate seems to me like if you actually want to enjoy modern Amiga games like this you NEED a different Amiga joystick one that is up to post-1991 standards

Originally Posted by alkis21

so I really do not want or need a different Amiga joystick.

the amount of Amiga games that were absolutely murdered playability-wise by the forced use of a one button controller when two buttons were available since the beginning is astounding and people asking for going back in time in this aspect make no sense

also as i have experimented with Blitz Basic myself I can say that handling the keyboard is absolutely tedious and joystick is much easier so as a developer i wouldn't bother one second to try and please the people who refuse to get a two button controller


it is simple want to enjoy this game? get the right controller

Originally Posted by sokolovic

For new Amiga games, developpers should'nt be bothered with this limitation .
I really don't understand how is it possible to stay with a 1 button joystick by 2024 and asks NEW games to be played in this configuration even if that means destroying the playability of the game .

[BigD]

Originally Posted by Bren McGuire

it is simple want to enjoy this game? get the right controller

Drop the mic...BOOM!!!!!
Quick, end the thread before the demanding Luddites come back!

Epilogue: Yes, I know I was demanding by expecting to play as Maki in the recent Mega Final Fight (now just Final Fight MD) port to the Mega Drive the other night but that feature WAS a thing once upon a time in early development and is present in Final Fight Enhanced on the Amiga (though a bit buggy in 2-player)!

Back on topic: Developers should ignore the Luddites that like their falling apart Quickshot 2s because:

1) Robocop using spacebar was ALWAYS rubbish!

2) Amigas could ALWAYS cope with more than 1-button on our crappy joystick (Zip Sticks/Competition Pros even had 2 buttons that could have been wired up to be fire button 1 and fire button 2 if the developers had cared)!

3) In 2024 there is absolutely no reason to pander to apathetic, stuck in their ways people that still stand by Commodore making such lame decisions by not including a 2-button joystick with the A600/AGA machines to force the transition to something the 1985 NES had as standard!!

Kaboom!!! The whole PA system explodes and the entire arena burns to the ground....Elvis has left the building!!!!

[Toni Galvez]

Originally Posted by Bren McGuire

mate seems to me like if you actually want to enjoy modern Amiga games like this you NEED a different Amiga joystick one that is up to post-1991 standards





the amount of Amiga games that were absolutely murdered playability-wise by the forced use of a one button controller when two buttons were available since the beginning is astounding and people asking for going back in time in this aspect make no sense

also as i have experimented with Blitz Basic myself I can say that handling the keyboard is absolutely tedious and joystick is much easier so as a developer i wouldn't bother one second to try and please the people who refuse to get a two button controller


it is simple want to enjoy this game? get the right controller

Even can have support for 3 button joystick/PAD, because there are 3 connections on Amiga for 3 different buttons.