Legality of CoffinOS and Vampire Team

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by Predseda

Hm, but the thread title talks about legality

You've now stated incorrectly that the "EAB File Server" also distributes illegal software...

So, again; show me exactly where there are Amiga OS files / Kickstart ROMs and commercial programs / games still for sale on the "EAB File Server" for download?

[Predseda]

If the game is not for sale anymore does it mean it is freely distributable then?

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by Predseda

If the game is not for sale anymore does it mean it is freely distributable then?

I didn't say that... let me quote:

Originally Posted by DamienD

Big difference if it was free; still not right but... as meynaf already mentioned:

Anyway, I'm quite happy to contact Turran right now and get him to pull this valuable resource on your behalf

[BippyM]

Okay,

Here is my take on this, and it is my own personal opinion.

Vampire team should NOT distribute coffin OS with commercial or abandoned software on it alongside a product it charges for. They should complete the vampire by using their own software, or providing enough guidance for user to do so themselves.

If I were to buy a GFX card for my PC I don't expect to get almost every game, and a shed load of commerical, still sold software for free. I don't expect to get Windows for free. I expect to be able to plug the GFX card into the pc, install the drivers and away I go. This is what the vampire team should do. They should NOT distribute any software unless they have the relevant permission to do so. Whether it is abandonware or not is irrelevant because they are selling a commercial product.

The issue I see with this entire thread is users are blurring the lines. The EAB ftp does not charge anything, and does not provide software that it shouldn't (kickstart/wb etc etc) and if there is something then the owner/publisher/distributer or whoever needs to message any moderator and it will be removed!

Now the EAB side of this..

I don't give a rats ass on the opinion of any member of this or any other forum/group on the planet. If a discussion might hurt the EAB legally, it wont happen, If a shared file might hurt the EAB legally it will not be shared here and so-on.. Anyone who has an opinion with this can ask for their account to be deleted.. It is that simple!

Anyone has any issues with this then please feel free to PM me where I will reiterate the above points, and then tell you where to go.. It is not debatable, and anyone who thinks it is morally okay to give away a 32gb distribution, with a commercial product that contains software that is still sold and commercial.. Well you need to go take a long hard look in the mirror.

I also invite ANY member of the Apollo/Vampire team to contact me directly to give an explanation as to exactly what they are giving away with their cards, and whether it is deemed okay. They will deal with me, and I am completely objective because I don't fully understand everything that has happened and I cannot form an opinion other than what I have put here. So Vampire team, let's chat

[BippyM]

Originally Posted by Predseda

If the game is not for sale anymore does it mean it is freely distributable then?

You are blurring the lines and you know it. This isn't the issue is it.... ?


Edit: Trying to discredit the EAB does not make it okay, so you can pack that shit up!

To distribute a 32Gb image which in all honesty they are charging for is not necessarily okay, especially when there are kickstart images, workbench installs and commercial software included... no, no, no. THey can quite easily create a package that they can distribute where the user provides their own WB adf's and it then builds the install!

[nikosidis]

Originally Posted by Predseda

If the game is not for sale anymore does it mean it is freely distributable then?

No, but who cares when it can not even be bought.

Music and music videos you watch for free on youtube.
There are some commercials showing up but I doubt Black Sabbath get anything from someone uploaded a concert from 1970.

To me it should be ok to download software that is not possible to buy. Earning money on them is not right. In that sense Coffin OS is wrong.

[Hewitson]

Originally Posted by DamienD

Tell that to Cloanto / Hyperion / Haage & Partner then...

Well to put it into perspective it would be like someone complaining about people downloading Windows 98 in the "X86 Discussion" thread.

Originally Posted by DamienD

Are you suggesting that we just pirate any new games being created and screw over the developers also?

No, of course I'm not. But I wouldn't call any new games abandonware. An operating system that is 20 years old is a different story.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Distributing for free is something, making money out of other's work is something else.

Originally Posted by DamienD

Also, don't forget these guys are selling a commercial product i.e. for money / profit.

If they were selling the actual OS for profit, then I would agree. But they are selling the hardware and providing the OS free of charge.

It's really not much different to a site providing a free download to 3.9, and I don't see those websites copping a bashing on here even though quite a few of them exist.

[BippyM]

Originally Posted by Hewitson

If they were selling the actual OS for profit, then I would agree. But they are selling the hardware and providing the OS free of charge.

It's really not much different to a site providing a free download to 3.9, and I don't see those websites copping a bashing on here even though quite a few of them exist.

Let's be completely honest here.. How difficult would it be for them to provide the coffin OS without the commercial stuff? How difficult would it be to follow in the footsteps of ClassicWB and just have a scripted install that asks the user to point to the required files etc?? I know for an absolute FACT that there would be users and members of the vampire world who would happily do this for them, free of charge.. All they have to do is ask the community...


For me the problem with the Amiga community is simple: Just about everyone wants everything doing for them, for free and the bigger the better....



I'll say it again.. all the vampire team NEEDS to supply is any drivers and instruction on how to get their cards working. They don't need to provide anything else, nor should they! Just because 50% of the Amiga world respects them does not give them permission or the right to flout and sidestep around things. I am sure they would do whatever they can to protect THEIR intellectual property, so they should respect others'

[Predseda]

Originally Posted by Hewitson

If they were selling the actual OS for profit, then I would agree. But they are selling the hardware and providing the OS free of charge.

It's really not much different to a site providing a free download to 3.9, and I don't see those websites copping a bashing on here even though quite a few of them exist.

Thats what I though. I dont see much difference between various sources of "abandonware". If they distribute software that is still on sale, it is not okay for sure. But basically I know nothing, I only had some questions and I mostly got threads instead of answers. Sad.

[BippyM]

Originally Posted by Predseda

Thats what I though. But basically I know nothing, I only had some questions and I mostly got threads instead of answers. Sad.

This is the problem though isn't it. There are ways for them to provide this, in a way that is respectful to the owners, without stepping on any toes. Problem is you, and other members just think you have the "Right" to have anything you want because it is not sold, or maintained, etc..


Someone mentioned there not being an uproar if win98 was distributed.. (Sorry I cannot find it, but maybe it was hewitson) I can absolutely 100% guarantee you right now, if NVidia distributed free copies of old windows distributions with their gfx cards, without Microsoft's permission, they will be hunted by Microsoft's lawyers..


Apollo team, please understand I am not accusing you of anything. I have not seen this distribution. I am happy to discuss with you in private as I have previously mentioned!

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by Predseda

If they distribute software that is still on sale, it is not okay for sure.

Have you not read the amiga.news.de article yet???

Let me quote the important parts relating to above:

For years, a customized, unlicensed distribution of AmigaOS 3.9 targeting the FPGA based 'Vampire' accelerators and Amiga clones has been available on the net. The package comes with tons of preinstalled software - including hundreds of games and productivity applications that used to be distributed commercially.

<snip>

This would explain just a tiny fraction of the software actually contained in the Coffin distribution - the package has a total size of 32 Gigabyte and contains a complete collection of preinstalled WHDLoad games as well as many other commercial titles such as Cinema 4D, SAS/C or "Foundation Director's Cut" - but was probably meant to diffuse the main point of criticism: Pirating software still available from dealers, like AmigaOS 3.9, is generally frowned upon, even in the usually rather 'Abandonware' friendly retro community.

But due to our own conversations with Jürgen Haage from many years ago, we doubted even the claim that the Vampire team got permission to distribute AmigaOS 3.9. And approached by amiga-news.de, Mr. Haage did indeed state that he didn't know about the Vampire project and did not have any communication with the people behind it - according to him, nobody approached Haage & Partner to ask about OS 3.9.

[Predseda]

Originally Posted by BippyM

Problem is you, and other members just think you have the "Right" to have anything you want because it is not sold, or maintained, etc..

You understand me completely upside down. That was why I asked if the fact, that a game is not sold anymore, automatically means it is freely distributable. And the answer is of course NOT.

[DamienD]

So some of you guys say that the Apollo team don't like / support CoffinOS...

Funny that there are torrent links to the latest CoffinOS right in the forum on their official webpage hey?

http://apollo-core.com/knowledge.php?b=1&note=22597

Interesting 2nd post, dated 22 Aug 2019:

Hopefully they make installing/running roadshow a 1st bootup question/option to disable it for those of us who DONT WANT IT.

You know, like how it checks to see if your vampire is using the most recent core, and prompts you to update right then/there. They could do the same with roadshow.

So "Roadshow" is included hey? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but that is commercial software still sold today

...and this post is quite interesting too, dated 22 Aug 2019:

I saw R55 on a Vampire4 today at the gamescom. I talked very much with Gunnar. Really amazing. I tried it too. Best classic Amiga i ever saw. He wanted to sell me one but have at moment not the money for it

So it really does seem that they are still distributing this hacked / modified Amiga OS 3.9 with commercial sales of their Vampire hardware.

[BippyM]

Originally Posted by Predseda

You understand me completely upside down. That was why I asked if the fact, that a game is not sold anymore, automatically means it is freely distributable. And the answer is of course NOT.

If this is the case then I apologise as I did misunderstand. Whether it is sold or not is irrelevant though because they are a legitimate business, selling products, and really shouldn't be involved with the distribution of software they don't have the right or approval to distribute, abandoned or not!

[shuttlepilot]

Originally Posted by DamienD

http://apollo-core.com/knowledge.php?b=1&note=22597

Interesting; 2nd post:


So "Roadshow" is included hey

Only a 10 minute demo of Roadshow is included before it nags the user and quits

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by shuttlepilot

Only a 10 minute demo of Roadshow is included before it nags the user and quits

Ok, but do they have the right to include this in their hacked Amiga OS 3.9 distro?

[shuttlepilot]

Originally Posted by DamienD

Ok, but do they have the right to include this in their hacked Amiga OS 3.9 distro?

AFAIK the demo is public domain, obviously the contained OS3.9 within the distro is not.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by shuttlepilot

obviously the contained OS3.9 within the distro is not.

Most definitely not.

I wonder if anyone has contacted Haage & Partner so that they are made fully aware of this situation, and can get their legal team onto this?

[Predseda]

Feel free to be the first.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by Predseda

Feel free to be the first.

I really doubt I'd be the first... this isn't exactly breaking news, and has been going on for years from the look of things.

I'd imagine numerous people already have.