13 August 2024, 14:30 | #41 |
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I never used attached sprites, not on ECS and even less on AGA. What I know is that non-attached sprites have a separate palette, that would be nice to experiment with AGA attached sprites, see if 2 characters of 128 pixels each could be displayed using all sprites (like the demo pretends but we don't see 2 characters at once).
If this is possible, then a game like MK would be completely possible, even a transcode from the original. I'd love to get my hands on the original MK source code... |
13 August 2024, 14:55 | #42 |
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The Amiga MK1 source code? I've only ever seen the Arcade MK2 & N64/Windows/PS1/Arcade "MK Trilogy" source floating around.
One of the programmers, Richard Costello was in for Retro Gamer, Issue 243, 16 February 2023, p40 so he's still around. Last edited by alexh; 13 August 2024 at 15:11. |
13 August 2024, 15:01 | #43 | |
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Unattached Sprites can still only use 3 colours each, but because odd and even Sprite colours can have their seperate banks, all 8 Sprites can have their own 3 colour palette (the attached Sprites all use the 'odd Sprites' palette bank). *) With some limits, but essentially you can choose each '16 colour aligned block' for use with them. All in all, you can certainly use HW Sprites for characters in MK2 AGA, but it'll look a lot less colourful than the demo you've provided here. |
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13 August 2024, 15:38 | #44 |
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There's another possibility: superimpose 4 HW sprites to get 12 independent colors per character (more with copper dynamic color change), but the size will be 64 max unless you reserve 3 colors for the extreme left/right of the sprites, in which case you could go wider... or complement wide moves with blitter.
I've done such a thing on Xevious port: the big ship is 96 pixels wide. I've used 4 sprites which could display 6 different colors. The original ship uses 7 colors, I removed a shade somewhere and it's almost the same. And it allowed to use the 4 other sprites with completely independent colors (player ship also used 2 sprites, plus other specially colored enemies). MK source code (amiga or original) would be great news. I can re-do things without the source but it takes a lot more time. |
13 August 2024, 15:51 | #45 |
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I tried this the other day on a souped up winuae config. And I got it to show the moving image with no background images and no grid at the start... I'll take a screenshot and post it tomorrow...
Can mk2 really be a possibly as a game on any form of Amiga? |
13 August 2024, 16:04 | #46 |
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we are already blessed by Richard with good OCS ports.
Specially MK is very playable! I always wanted to master MK2 but it seems that the game hates me (it also "cheats"). Too many characters & moves to learn. MK 1 is much simpler, uglier, and just pure fun, one or 2 players. As cool as those tech tests can be, we've seen in the past (Final Fight, Street Fighter 2, ...) that it almost never ends up as a full playable game. About the amiga source, I seem to remember that Richard could not share it, as it contains arcade source code. Last edited by jotd; 13 August 2024 at 16:12. |
13 August 2024, 17:15 | #47 |
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13 August 2024, 17:31 | #48 |
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13 August 2024, 17:50 | #49 | |
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13 August 2024, 20:05 | #50 |
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Great that noone else thought about it and now it can be attempted.
I quickly checked MK arcade. Richard Costello talked about 68020 code but he may be completely wrong as the processor is one of a TMS (Texas Instruments) series. Also, the tiles/sprites aren't rippable from MAME menu (bad news but understandable). So maybe there's another version which is 68020 (there's a Sega Genesis version) which could be adapted, because it's already great, and possible scaled down enough so the work doesn't have to be re-done. I'm not a specialist in ripping Sega Genesis titles, sadly. Maybe the version runs on MAME and everything can be ripped like if it's a regular arcade game now that MAME and MESS have merged? I also don't understand Richard saying that A1200 didn't exist when MK amiga was done. I remember buying MK in spring 1994 (it was coded right before that), and surely the A1200 existed. MK arcade was out in 1992. EDIT: just tested the Genesis version on MAME. It looks so much like the amiga version... Not worth using this as a base conversion. Surely the code could be reused, but not the sprites. And the sprites are probably 16x16 blocks as Richard hinted which means that it's going to be tough to rip them properly... Sorry for derailing the thread... Maybe another thread should be opened, and some posts migrated there... Dunno. Keeping quiet now. Last edited by jotd; 13 August 2024 at 20:24. |
13 August 2024, 21:06 | #51 |
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For an eventual version for AGA better taking the PC version, or even directly the Arcade one
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13 August 2024, 22:41 | #52 |
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the problem with remaking such a game (MK or MK2, so I'm on topic) is that even with sprite rips (https://www.spriters-resource.com/ar.../sheet/166919/) you don't really have the "source" of the sprites, but the "solved" frames. For memory reasons, it's possible that characters are split into zones (for instance when Johnny puts his glasses on, the feet & legs are exactly in the same position)
You can't just put all frames in the memory without some sort of compression or tiling, like McGeezer did for Devil's temple, or Richard Costello told he did for the amiga version (or the megadrive assets). It would just take too much memory (MK uncompressed arcade ROM is 7MB) So maybe arcade doesn't "tile" the sprites but for a home version (except for Neo Geo) you have to. |
13 August 2024, 23:15 | #53 | |
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14 August 2024, 00:28 | #54 | |
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Stage 1 uses dual playfield, Stage 2-5 use a conventional bitmap setup with 7 or 8 bitplanes In case of 8 bitplane setup, 224 colors are used for bitplanes, remaining 32 for sprites As mentioned Turrican 2 AGA also used 256 colors and Ultra Violent Worlds, but those both required Fast RAM. |
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14 August 2024, 03:10 | #55 | |
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I can see if I can upload them somewhere if you can't find them. Would be mega if you could transcode them but again it's a weird CPU. |
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14 August 2024, 09:15 | #56 | ||
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Yes, some rare and recent games can use it. With fastmem. 128 colors I can see the point (Supercars 2 AGA uses 128 colors and is playable). 256 + sprites it means that you have to share palette with sprites (so sprites don't add any color, just speed) and I always found this annoying. But what is doable is to use the 8 first colors of the sprites for the bitmap palette, as they are not used by sprites (transparent). So 256-32+8 = exclusive 232 colors for bitmaps. The trick also applies for ECS games with 32 colors. Quote:
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14 August 2024, 09:23 | #57 |
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Quite an interesting 'CPU' that TMS one, only 6.25mhz apparently as well, used in quite a few games
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TMS34010 https://www.system16.com/hardware.php?id=610 https://www.system16.com/hardware.php?id=611 |
14 August 2024, 09:42 | #58 | |
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I have source code for NARC. This TMS chip has a lot of similarities with 68000 after all
Code:
WAIT_FOR_Y SLEEP 1 MOVE *A13(SPR_Y_SCROLL),A14,L ;GET CURRENT SCROLLING COORDINATE MOVE @Y_CORR,A10,L ;GET THE ONE INDICATED BY IRQ SUB A10,A14 ;THIS IS NEGATIVE OF THE OFFSET NEG A14 ;TURN IT POSITIVE (OUR OFFSET) MOVE A10,*A13(SPR_Y_SCROLL),L ;STORE THIS BACK AS OUR DISTANCE MOVE *A13(SPR_Y),A8,L ;GET Y FOR CURRENT BLOB ADD A14,A8 ;ADD CORRECTION MOVE A8,*A13(SPR_Y),L ;STORE IT BACK CMPI Y_TO_DRAW*STRUCT_Y_UNIT,A8 ;ARE WE HIGH ENOUGH JRHI WAIT_FOR_Y ;not yet....wait some more RETP Fun fact: Quote:
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14 August 2024, 09:52 | #59 |
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No surprise as Probe software did most of the Mega Drive and Amiga versions, with the latter based on the MD code/graphics (MK, Alien3, T2Arcade)
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14 August 2024, 09:53 | #60 | |
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I've no idea how complete either collection is, though. Did anybody here manage to grab the MK2 stuff before it got pulled down? B |
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