Amiga StreetFighter2

[john4p]

Originally Posted by fishyfish

VGA is 320x200, arcade sf2 is 384x288, hence the illusion that characters are bigger.

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Street_Fighter_II it's only 384x224.

[fishyfish]

As much as I distrust half of what I read on wikipedia it's right in this cas. Not sure where I got the 288 from. Even the bitmap is only x256.

[john4p]

Originally Posted by fishyfish

Not sure where I got the 288 from.

Probably because if you have a 4:3 format screen and the game uses a width of 384 (=4*96) pixels then a height of 288 (=3*96) pixels would be a fair assumption.

That means that SF2 probably used black borders on top and bottom or had to be vertically stretched more if it was to use the full screen.

[fishyfish]

Ive changed my mind about how I'd like to tackle this project. After working more or less constantly on it for most of a week I got a bit burnt out. Although the basic game play is quite simple, the sheer volume of graphics that need to be downscaled to a use less colors alone is a massive undertaking. The method Im using is pretty simple, and could be done by even people not usually very graphics oriented, but it is time consuming with a lot of manual effort involved. There are quicker ways, but I think its worth the extra effort for the better results.
On top of the graphics, there's also the sounds that need to be obtained and probably resampled, plus the music. The second biggest job besides graphics however is recreating the gameplay, and ai, etc. So far Ive just been "mapping" out heiracy of moves (if blanka performs "move X" against ryu while ryu is performing "move y", while moving in "direction z", what is the result? (and so on and so forth).

Anyway, my new plan of attack is to slowly, but surely obtain all the sprites, sounds, etc. 1st. Perhaps upload them somewhere in an organised manner, each character having its own directory for the different media associated with them, and that other people can also upload to. A combined effort to obtain all the media essentially.
Once that's done it makes it so much easier to work with, and other people could help with the color downscaling (I can provide instructions on the software and methods I used). Maybe have "original", "ecs", and "aga" directories so that people who are interested can contribute to?

It really is just too much work for one person to get it right (and really, what would be the point in another mediocre street fighter? we already have a few ). Not only this, but a lot of work is done for anyone, who sometime down the track might want to do an amiga streetfighter as well. I know the graphics work has lowered my motivation on it in the past (although thankfully Ive kept all the work from the last 2 times I was interested, so it all adds up).

I currently have complete sprite sheets for Ryu, Sagat, and Blanks. Once I had them it was only about a 15 minute job each to "amiga-fy" them for my ecs 16 color sprite palette. Ive also obtained all the backdrop graphics for ryus stage through Nebula (arcade emulator that lets you disable different graphics/sprite layers, has been invaluable).

Is this something people would be willing to help with? Even if not from me, I suspect it'll be a big step towards getting a decent SF2 version for amiga. I have always wanted to try to do a remake of it, but Id be more than willing to play second fiddle to someone with better coding skills if they come along. Although I dont doubt my ability to make something better than what we have now Im sure there's going to have to be a few extra compromises made vs. what a more hardcore asm coder could come up with

[Amiga1992]

LEt me know about audio. I could give you a hand.

[fishyfish]

Well for now Im just trying to obtain all the sounds needed, even if just raw, unamiga friendly versions for now. In a project with so much audiovisual data it really helps to have everthing organised before going too far. For now if you was interested in doing any audio work I guess the best thing to do would to be to obtain al the samples from the character/characters of your choice. Same with the music I guess.

I did a fair bit of browsing, and was surprised to find street fighter 2 graphics and sounds harder to come by than other fighting games. Bit of a shame as the ripping of sprites, backgrounds, etc. delays getting into the real "meaty" bits.

If anyone wants to browse for themselves, please feel free. Id be happy to be proven wrong

Ah, also, can someone suggest a quick, simple place that people could upload any sf2 graphics or sounds they obtain please? I guess the zone probably isnt really appropriate? (sorry, I see it mentioned a lot, but arent really sure exactly what it is apart from a place people sometimes upload files)..

[Amiga1992]

Raw audio is perfect, with little conversion it can be converted to Amiga.

[Jgames]

Originally Posted by fishyfish

The second biggest job besides graphics however is recreating the gameplay, and ai, etc. So far Ive just been "mapping" out heiracy of moves (if blanka performs "move X" against ryu while ryu is performing "move y", while moving in "direction z", what is the result? (and so on and so forth).

I think that's the biggest and most difficult problem, as it will be pratically impossible to get the same feeling and gameplay without the actual arcade source code of SSF2T.

I don't think that there is any capcom SF2 source code publicly around, but i read that the C code of ssf2t arcade was used to create the dreamcast SSF2T version.

I believe Capcom started coding Street fighter in C starting the SSF2 The new challengers; That would explain similar home console version of that game (dreamcast, 3DO, PC, etc...) and was made as with the PC and dreamcast version by other developpers than Capcom, using the arcade source code they provided to them.

Earlier SF2 (SF2, SF2CE and SF2T) might be assembler only, and no c source code around, so only capcom internal dev team could make a correct version (snes, megadrive and pcengine);

[redblade]

If you want to rip the arcade gfx use Turaco, but it rips to .pcx if I recall?

[Anna]

The code logic is definitely the hardest part of the game to work out. I remember being impressed by the Gameboy version. It was in black and white but it actually played like the original (unlike all the ports done without the source code). Speaking of which, does anyone know where I can get a copy of the Spectrum version of Street Fighter 2? Has anybody else played the mobile Java version (shudder)..

[dlfrsilver]

Originally Posted by Jgames

I think that's the biggest and most difficult problem, as it will be pratically impossible to get the same feeling and gameplay without the actual arcade source code of SSF2T.

I don't think that there is any capcom SF2 source code publicly around, but i read that the C code of ssf2t arcade was used to create the dreamcast SSF2T version.

I believe Capcom started coding Street fighter in C starting the SSF2 The new challengers; That would explain similar home console version of that game (dreamcast, 3DO, PC, etc...) and was made as with the PC and dreamcast version by other developpers than Capcom, using the arcade source code they provided to them.

Earlier SF2 (SF2, SF2CE and SF2T) might be assembler only, and no c source code around, so only capcom internal dev team could make a correct version (snes, megadrive and pcengine);

where did got that information about SSF2T ? This game is 68000 ASM, launch mame with the debugging feature, and check what happens with the help of the memory map given in the game driver.

Only a few games are C coded on CPS2 systems (i got that information from the arcade system forum, from a guy who was patching CPS2 roms).

[Jgames]

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

where did got that information about SSF2T ? This game is 68000 ASM, launch mame with the debugging feature, and check what happens with the help of the memory map given in the game driver.

Only a few games are C coded on CPS2 systems (i got that information from the arcade system forum, from a guy who was patching CPS2 roms).

Maybe not the CPS2 version, but the Dreamcast version is in C it seems.

From Capcom blog.

Is this game based on the Dreamcast version of SSF2T? I thought people wanted the arcade version.

Yes it is based on the Dreamcast version. The Dreamcast version has many fixes and features over the arcade version. It has random character select, a training mode, a versus mode, and lots of bug fixes such the ability to do reversal supers with Ken/Sagat/Dhalsim, the correct sound effects for hitting with certain normal moves, the correct point values for hitting with certain normal moves, etc. The new gamely in SSF2T HD Remix uses the Dreamcast version as a starting point because we wanted these small bugs fixed. We also know that everyone wants the arcade version for SSF2T HD Classic Arcade. Luckily, the Dreamcast version contains the source code of the arcade game with internal dipswitches to set gameplay back to the arcade version. We’ve set everything to the 02/23/1994 settings, which should be the same as the arcade version. This allows to have the gameplay of the arcade version with the versus mode, training mode, random select, and damage handicap options of the Dreamcast version.

http://www.capcom-unity.com/s-kill/b...o_hd_remix_faq

Also, here:

Sirlin told VideoGamer.com that he "ignored" Backbone's rejection of his rebalancing proposal and began teaching himself how to decipher the original Dreamcast source code, from which the game is based.

http://www.videogamer.com/xbox360/su..._struggle.html

Maybe the Dreamcast version is a rewrite in C or C++ of the CPS2 arcade version, but that would be a bit strange, looks more natural that the arcade version be in C too, as it is a new Street fighter, Capcom may have thought about the conversion it would need for other systems, and done the arcade version itself in C instead of ASM.

But if Mame says it's ASM, then it is

[Amiga1992]

I am pretty sure they all use sizeable chunks of ASM for speed purposes, but maybe the logic is in C for easy transport of gameplay to other platforms.

[dlfrsilver]

i got lately from a guy, a PDF from Toaplan confidentiel developpement journal.

Arcade games from Toaplan are built with the help of a tool running on X68000. The previous Toaplan dev system was running on a Sony BMC-777 computer

This tools allows the placing of tiles, and also allows if i understand clearly program code generation. Incredible isn't it ? XD

The PDF is 686 pages scanned. If you want me to upload it, i do it

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

Arcade games from Toaplan are built with the help of a tool running on X68000.

The fact that the X68000 was a development platform for many arcade games because of its hardware is well known. It was a CPS arcade platform as well.

A lot of games ran on a common "engine" so a high level workflow for creating the actual game design sounds normal.

[Leo42]

Looks nice so far!
Do you think the special perspective applied to the floor could be added too ?
I think that was missing to most Amiga conversions.
Also, the projectiles (Ryu's firepunch,...) had different style than in arcade version.

[fishyfish]

Yes and no, with the emphasis on maybe

Nah, seriously though Im pretty sure I could add it to an aga specific version. ECS might be a little trickier.
I did this experiment about a year ago with winuae using a 1meg a500 equivalent config, and with amos (is both smoother and faster than the video, but the recording software didnt give great results (not to mention the annoying text )).

[ Show youtube player ]

Given that the code is relying on raw grunt, isnt compiled, and is done with amos I think I could use the effect on an upgraded aga machine. Im using a more appropriate, faster language than the experiment for the actual game, plus have since learned a better way to do it using the copper instead of cpu.
Could be possible, but most likely wont happen until I do a 2nd revised, aga version. Assuming I take that up after initial version is done.

Only thing I know for sure so far is that it'll be a long term project.

@redblade
Thanks for the tip. What Ive seen of it so far though leaves me unsure whether it'll be usable for cps1/cps2 games, but I'll definately look into it.

[Lord Riton]

the NEO-GEO also had a 68000 in it.. but that is pretty all what was close to an Amiga from it

[john4p]

Originally Posted by Jgames

Maybe not the CPS2 version, but the Dreamcast version is in C it seems.

From Capcom blog.



http://www.capcom-unity.com/s-kill/b...o_hd_remix_faq

Also, here:


http://www.videogamer.com/xbox360/su..._struggle.html

Maybe the Dreamcast version is a rewrite in C or C++ of the CPS2 arcade version, but that would be a bit strange, looks more natural that the arcade version be in C too, as it is a new Street fighter, Capcom may have thought about the conversion it would need for other systems, and done the arcade version itself in C instead of ASM.

But if Mame says it's ASM, then it is

Huh?! There was never a Dreamcast version of SSF2T AFAIK. Only SF3 series and Alpha 3: http://www.gamefaqs.com/dreamcast/list-s?page=1

edit: Okay, found it: "In 2000, Capcom released Super Street Fighter II X for Matching Service in Japan for the Dreamcast, a version of the game which featured an online two-player versus mode." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Street_Fighter)

[Baboon]

Looking forward to see where this project goes as street fighter 2 was allways an embarrassment to me on the amiga. Seeing my brother play sf2 on the snes back in the day made me go out and purchase the console seeing as the amiga's effort was gash.

Originally Posted by john4p

Huh?! There was never a Dreamcast version of SSF2T AFAIK. Only SF3 series and Alpha 3: http://www.gamefaqs.com/dreamcast/list-s?page=1

edit: Okay, found it: "In 2000, Capcom released Super Street Fighter II X for Matching Service in Japan for the Dreamcast, a version of the game which featured an online two-player versus mode." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Street_Fighter)

Yeah I've got the excellent (and I believe quite rare?) Japanese version for the dreamcast...although saldy its just a 'backup'.