Dungeon Master Custom Dungeons

[RogerS]

I'm currently playing CSB in dmcsb. I'm currently at the end of the first path (Ku) and so far there are a couple of things I noticed haven't been implemented correctly in this version of the CSB dungeon.

There's supposed to be a creature teleporter at 9,20,23 that teleports any creature that steps on that square to 9,19,24. In the dmcsb version the dragon could happily stand on the 9,20,23 while I was standing inside the fake wall at 9,21,23 instead of being teleported any time it tried to walk into that square, forcing me to back up into the junction teleporter.
https://www.dungeon-master.com/forum...163793#p163793
http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/131

The pit at 1,33,22 (the one just south of the pressure plate that closes the pit in front of the Ku corbum) is supposed to be a fake pit, a shortcut between Ku and Ros. In this version of the dungeon it's a regular pit instead.
http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/122


I'm glad to see you're looking into potentially improving the audio in dmcsb by the way

[RogerS]

One more thing I forgot to mention.

In the room on level 1 just before you get to the Ku corbum there is supposed to be a stone golem and a hellhound. The stone golem was there like normal, but instead of a hellhound there were a pair of gigglers instead. They didn't drop anything when I killed them so they were normally spawned gigglers instead of item carrying ones from level 7. I don't remember ever seeing gigglers in pairs before by the way.

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by RogerS

I'm currently playing CSB in dmcsb. I'm currently at the end of the first path (Ku) and so far there are a couple of things I noticed haven't been implemented correctly in this version of the CSB dungeon.

They are implemented correctly. They are bug fixes !
When you find a difference, always ask yourself if it makes sense before jumping to conclusions.

Originally Posted by RogerS

There's supposed to be a creature teleporter at 9,20,23 that teleports any creature that steps on that square to 9,19,24. In the dmcsb version the dragon could happily stand on the 9,20,23 while I was standing inside the fake wall at 9,21,23 instead of being teleported any time it tried to walk into that square, forcing me to back up into the junction teleporter.
https://www.dungeon-master.com/forum...163793#p163793
http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/131

This is purely intentional and a bug fix. The teleporter was originally there to prevent monsters from reaching the teleporter behind. It was very clumsy way.
If the dragon does not let you pass, cast a cloud of poison. He well get back.

Originally Posted by RogerS

The pit at 1,33,22 (the one just south of the pressure plate that closes the pit in front of the Ku corbum) is supposed to be a fake pit, a shortcut between Ku and Ros. In this version of the dungeon it's a regular pit instead.
http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/122

Sure. So you won't bug abuse and skip a whole way.

Originally Posted by RogerS

One more thing I forgot to mention.

In the room on level 1 just before you get to the Ku corbum there is supposed to be a stone golem and a hellhound. The stone golem was there like normal, but instead of a hellhound there were a pair of gigglers instead. They didn't drop anything when I killed them so they were normally spawned gigglers instead of item carrying ones from level 7. I don't remember ever seeing gigglers in pairs before by the way.

What ? No, shouldn't happen. Gimme a saved game so i can see by myself.

[RogerS]

Originally Posted by meynaf

They are implemented correctly. They are bug fixes !
When you find a difference, always ask yourself if it makes sense before jumping to conclusions.

Fair enough.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Sure. So you won't bug abuse and skip a whole way.

What makes you sure the Ku - Ros shortcut is actually a bug instead of intentionally placed there by the developers for clever players to discover and make use of? It certainly fits with the non-linear nature of the dungeon, full of secrets and tricks.

Originally Posted by meynaf

What ? No, shouldn't happen. Gimme a saved game so i can see by myself.

Unfortunately even my backup save is right before picking up the corbum, after having killed the golem and the gigglers.

Despite that, I am able to consistently able to reproduce it by going down the stairs and having a long rest, then going up the stairs again. For me it then respawns a stone golem and 1 or 2 gigglers.

If you're still interested in that save, what are the best option(s) for sending it to you?

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by RogerS

What makes you sure the Ku - Ros shortcut is actually a bug instead of intentionally placed there by the developers for clever players to discover and make use of? It certainly fits with the non-linear nature of the dungeon, full of secrets and tricks.

Well, if they allow skipping one of the ways, why ku and no other ? This makes no sense to me.

Originally Posted by RogerS

If you're still interested in that save, what are the best option(s) for sending it to you?

The zone, if you can access it.
Else, attachment in your post, or whatever download url i can get to.

[RogerS]

Here is the save attached to this post.

[meynaf]

Can't reproduce. I roam around and there is absolutely no monster creation.

[RogerS]

Originally Posted by meynaf

Can't reproduce. I roam around and there is absolutely no monster creation.

Go to the stairs at 1,33,9 (http://dmweb.free.fr/Stuff/3dh/csb/?1,33,9) and go down those stairs and forward a step to 2,33,8 (http://dmweb.free.fr/Stuff/3dh/csb/?2,33,8) and have a long rest there (at least long enough for one of the torch spells to have worn off when you wake up). When you go back upstairs again after a sufficiently long rest, the creatures in that room should have respawned.

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by RogerS

Go to the stairs at 1,33,9 (http://dmweb.free.fr/Stuff/3dh/csb/?1,33,9) and go down those stairs and forward a step to 2,33,8 (http://dmweb.free.fr/Stuff/3dh/csb/?2,33,8) and have a long rest there (at least long enough for one of the torch spells to have worn off when you wake up). When you go back upstairs again after a sufficiently long rest, the creatures in that room should have respawned.

It took some time, but i could finally get to it.
Argh! Indeed there is an error.
Monster generator had wrong type, should have been hell hound instead of giggler.

I have fixed that but it won't affect existing games. One has to restart for changes to take place.
Perhaps it is better that prior to a new release, i wait for you to find possible other issues.
Thanks for reporting.

[RogerS]

Originally Posted by meynaf

It took some time, but i could finally get to it.
Argh! Indeed there is an error.
Monster generator had wrong type, should have been hell hound instead of giggler.

I have fixed that but it won't affect existing games. One has to restart for changes to take place.
Perhaps it is better that prior to a new release, i wait for you to find possible other issues.
Thanks for reporting.

No problem, glad I could help

[RogerS]

I've completed the CSB run now, and I didn't notice any other obvious issues.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Well, if they allow skipping one of the ways, why ku and no other ? This makes no sense to me.

Allowing skipping all of the ways would be too excessive. Having a secret shortcut as a bonus to allow clever/experienced players to save some time fetching one of the corbums does make sense to me. I'm convinced it was intentional by the developers.

Having it linked to Ros makes sense due to the nature of the Ros path, and connecting the Ros path to the Ku path makes more sense than connecting it to Dain, since Ros and Ku are the two non-magical paths, ninja and fighter.

Please put it back.

[Thorham]

Originally Posted by RogerS

Allowing skipping all of the ways would be too excessive. Having a secret shortcut as a bonus to allow clever/experienced players to save some time fetching one of the corbums does make sense to me. I'm convinced it was intentional by the developers.

Totally sounds like a bug. Basically the kind of thing speed runners use to skip parts of a game.

[RogerS]

Originally Posted by Thorham

Totally sounds like a bug. Basically the kind of thing speed runners use to skip parts of a game.

Speed runners mainly use glitches in a game's physics engine. This is not a glitch, there are illusionary pits elsewhere as well.

[Thorham]

Originally Posted by RogerS

Speed runners mainly use glitches in a game's physics engine.

And flaws in a map

Originally Posted by RogerS

This is not a glitch, there are illusionary pits elsewhere as well.

No, it's not a glitch, but likely a misplaced map feature.

Being able to skip a whole section of the game like this looks like a map bug. Don't make the mistake of ignoring your bias. I did that with the War Cry ability thing and Punch ability being extremely effective against Stone Giants and Rock Piles, while in hindsight it doesn't make any sense.

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by RogerS

Allowing skipping all of the ways would be too excessive. Having a secret shortcut as a bonus to allow clever/experienced players to save some time fetching one of the corbums does make sense to me. I'm convinced it was intentional by the developers.

Having it linked to Ros makes sense due to the nature of the Ros path, and connecting the Ros path to the Ku path makes more sense than connecting it to Dain, since Ros and Ku are the two non-magical paths, ninja and fighter.

Having it linked to Ros indeed makes sense.
Skipping the Ros part from the start of the Ros part would have made sense too. Or having the choice for the one you skip, with inability to skip several.
But skipping the Ku path and no other, doesn't make any sense.

Originally Posted by RogerS

Please put it back.

Sorry, I don't undo bug fixes.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Totally sounds like a bug. Basically the kind of thing speed runners use to skip parts of a game.

And this is exactly why it got fixed.

Originally Posted by RogerS

Speed runners mainly use glitches in a game's physics engine. This is not a glitch, there are illusionary pits elsewhere as well.

Illusionary pits are something, completely skipping arbitrary 25% of a game is something else.

Originally Posted by Thorham

And flaws in a map

No, it's not a glitch, but likely a misplaced map feature.

Being able to skip a whole section of the game like this looks like a map bug. Don't make the mistake of ignoring your bias. I did that with the War Cry ability thing and Punch ability being extremely effective against Stone Giants and Rock Piles, while in hindsight it doesn't make any sense.

Many things are not obvious until explained. I understand some choices may look highly questionable at first sight.

[Thorham]

Originally Posted by meynaf

And this is exactly why it got fixed.

You can speedrun the original CSB in eight minutes, so there might be more to fix if there are glitches and map bugs involved.

[ Show youtube player ]

Originally Posted by meynaf

Many things are not obvious until explained. I understand some choices may look highly questionable at first sight.

Any other changes like that?

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by Thorham

You can speedrun the original CSB in eight minutes, so there might be more to fix if there are glitches and map bugs involved.

The video goes too fast even with boots of speed so it does not look as authentic as should be.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Any other changes like that?

There are quite a few here in this thread, and probably in the original dm thread as well.

[RogerS]

I have a feature request. Would it perhaps be possible to add the ability to cast spells using the keyboard?

1 to 6 (on the regular keyboard, not the numpad) would select the runes and the space bar would cast the spell, so for example I could press 6 4 4 SPACE to cast a Mon level fireball, 2 2 SPACE for an Um level Vi potion, 1 6 3 5 SPACE for a zokathra spell, etc.

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by RogerS

I have a feature request. Would it perhaps be possible to add the ability to cast spells using the keyboard?

1 to 6 (on the regular keyboard, not the numpad) would select the runes and the space bar would cast the spell, so for example I could press 6 4 4 SPACE to cast a Mon level fireball, 2 2 SPACE for an Um level Vi potion, 1 6 3 5 SPACE for a zokathra spell, etc.

Yes it is possible.
It may make the game slightly easier but it's like the automap, nobody is forced to use it.
Timing isn't exactly good for a dmcsb release now as i'm working on some other project, but let's collect ideas.

[RogerS]

Thank you