RESHOOT PROXIMA III – New game from the RESHOOT R guys

[buzzybee]

Originally Posted by Alpha One

let the people choose if they want some bytes changed in their very own RAM disk or not.

That's perfectly fine with me. May I ask for equal rights for everyone, por favor: Let developers of a game also choose, if they want some stranger "to change some bytes" in their code or not.

The answer may be positive. This would be the fair, respectful, grown-up way of the scene.

[Alpha One]

Originally Posted by buzzybee

That's perfectly fine with me. May I ask for equal rights for everyone, por favor: Let developers of a game also choose, if they want some stranger to modify their code or not, and which modifications make sense.

The answer may be positive. This would be the fair, respectful, grown-up way of the scene.

[/QUOTE]

I already wrote this in a PM, what about all those Workbench patches flying around ? Letting the user have some nice copper bars in the background, patching icon.library to be a bit faster? Does anyone have problems with that ?

[buzzybee]

Originally Posted by Alpha One

I already wrote this in a PM, what about all those Workbench patches flying around ? Letting the user have some nice copper bars in the background, patching icon.library to be a bit faster? Does anyone have problems with that ?

This is a prime example of comparing apples and oranges. First of all, Workbench is not a game. Also, there is software that is meant to be modified by users - and there is software that is meant to remain untouched. Why is it on you and not the game developer, to decide the category of his work?

Also, a trainer is not primarily meant to patch the game code. It is primarily designed to showcase the ego of the guy who released the trainer. Besides it not only patches the code, but the gameplay experience. Not always for the better, as it's made in a hurry and in most cases without consulting the game developers.

So, how does patching the code without killing the gameplay experience work? WHDload client, that's how.

This is my last posting on the subject of trainers, as I am bored by discussions that lead to Nowhereland.

[Lizart]

That's an exciting discussion, service vs. artistic freedom

I bought the game directly at the amiga38 fair, because on the one hand I honor the development and on the other hand I like to have original games in my closet. also I find shoot em ups cool, although I'm not very talented at it. Often I don't have the time or the patience to play through such a game. that's why I like trainer mode and when I bought it I thought: hopefully there will be a trainer for this game soon.

That's my view of things, but I can also provide the developer's view. He has worked for years to create the perfect game experience, carefully balancing the levels, and that's what he wants the player to experience. If someone then simply torpedoes this desired game experience without being asked, it can quickly be understood as an intervention or falsification of his work of art.

Maybe it would be a solution if the author directly offers a trainer/cheat mode. With Turrican2AGA was yet elegantly solved. So the consumer can decide for himself, and the developer can be sure that nobody changes bytes in his code.

Nevertheless, RP3 is a great game and fun to play, with or without a trainer.

[Alpha One]

Originally Posted by buzzybee

So, how does patching the code without killing the gameplay experience work? WHDload client, that's how.

Except the tons of slaves that offer trainer functions.

Back to Nowhereland ....

[klx300r]

Originally Posted by AmyMor

I have MK2 configured in PAL 50HZ and the game starts and works normally.
Force the Pal screen by removing NTSC from Devs: Monitor

tried that but same issue

Update:

The WHDload slave solved this issue..thanks again DanyPPC :-)

[Tigerskunk]

Originally Posted by Alpha One

Except the tons of slaves that offer trainer functions.

Back to Nowhereland ....

The problem is, you just do that stuff without asking anyone.
We are a small scene, and acting like this is maximum disrespect for the people involved in the game.

Personally, I don't have a problem with trainers.
But if I were to do this, I'd ask the creator of a game if we cannot do something together.

[klx300r]

Originally Posted by DanyPPC

Wepl updated reshoot 3 slave to 1.1
(https://www.whdload.de/games/ReshootProxima3.html)

History:
--------

version 1.1 (16.10.2023) done by Wepl:
- access fault fixed happen when pressing 2nd button for pause (issue #6268)
- memory required reduced
- more icons added, thanks Irek and DanyPPC

It seems now fixed 2nd button problem on some configuration.
Many thanks Wepl

Thanks This solved my two issues in that I can now cleanly exit the game back to WorkBench and I can run the game on my NTSC 1200 Tower thanks to the PAL tolltype in WHDLoad whioch playst nice with my IndivisionAGAMK2 which was forcing an NTSC screen and crashing my system before

[vroom6sri]

Sort of related to the discussion about trainers and also about my experiences with the game I would welcome something that lets you start from any of the levels you have reached so far. Seeing as you seem to start off on a new level (still only made it to Level 2 so far!) with base speed and weapon power this seems like a good idea for players like me who are of limited time and talent but want to progress bit by bit through a stunning looking and fun game. Perhaps if there was an option to do that but your high scores wouldn't be saved. That feels like you have earned the progress, you can practice those levels you have reached to then give it a marathon go from the start (with high score saves enabled if starting from level 1).

Also, I have to say, when my ship collides with something and I lose speed it really frustrates me, almost to the point that it makes me mad but that is very much one of my worse character traits. I'm sure others would see this as providing a challenge and excitement especially when they survive and power their speed back up. For me it feels like torture at times, just prolonging my pain before the inevitable explosion.

[malko]

I believe no permission has to be asked to create a trainer.
We are speaking about small bytes of code in RAM that some will choose to download and use to have a better and personal game experience.
As a gamer choice, this has nothing to do with being disrespectful with the team behind the game.

[Tigerskunk]

Originally Posted by malko

I believe no permission has to be asked to create a trainer.

This is not about permissions, this is about basic human interaction, and respecting other people.

I can fully understand that you as a gamer don't give two shits about this, but we as game devs do. We are no in the 80ies anymore where this stuff was a lot more anonymous.
And it's not like "Alpha One" doesn't know this. He just doesn't give a fuck again and again.

As a game dev I cannot prevent this of course (other than not developing on the Amiga anymore and focus on other platforms in the future because some people in this scene behave like asocials), but I can state my opinion about this, whether you like it or not.

[malko]

^ As a gamer I usually skip the trainer intro without activating it.
And I have finished quite a lot this way. Contrary to what you say, this has nothing about not giving one or two shits about it. This is simply how I like to enjoy a game.

But I understand that some other gamer may like to have a trainer under the hand to better experience the game they bought. No disrespect to the team behind the game.

And honestly, I feel this discussion a bit strange given that you can "save state" your game and retry and retry and retry again and again which will allow you to have the best highscore possible.

Personally I am respectful for the people creating games as I am thankful to people creating trainers.

[TCD]

Originally Posted by malko

And honestly, I feel this discussion a bit strange given that you can "save state" your game and retry and retry and retry again and again which will allow you to have the best highscore possible.

Don't give people ideas Next there will be an emulator ban

[Tigerskunk]

Originally Posted by malko

Personally I am respectful for the people creating games as I am thankful to people creating trainers.

Don't misunderstand me, I am also thankful for people creating trainers.

I'd just like to be involved, since it's not 1987 and "game devs vs crackers" anymore. We are a tiny scene, and there is no need for someone playing "Robin Hood" against some anonymous big company like Ocean or US Gold. We are just some dudes writing on the same forums like you who happen to create games.

[ransom1122]

I would never play new games with trainers, but I appreciate when trainers are made.

[Alpha One]

Originally Posted by Tigerskunk

This is not about permissions, this is about basic human interaction, and respecting other people.

I can fully understand that you as a gamer don't give two shits about this, but we as game devs do. We are no in the 80ies anymore where this stuff was a lot more anonymous.
And it's not like "Alpha One" doesn't know this. He just doesn't give a fuck again and again.

As a game dev I cannot prevent this of course (other than not developing on the Amiga anymore and focus on other platforms in the future because some people in this scene behave like asocials), but I can state my opinion about this, whether you like it or not.

Yay there is Mr. Tigerskunk again reacting as rude as in that common german forum once. If you think you must skip to another platform because your game got a trainer then do so, what a ridiculous reason.
But be careful, other platforms can also be targeted. :-)
Greets, the 'asocial' Alpha, Robin Hood in 2023 !

[TCD]

There's another thread 'Why is the homebrew scene on the Amiga not as impressive...' and I can't shake the feeling that the answer is somehow related to how this thread derailed.

[Tigerskunk]

Originally Posted by Alpha One

Yay there is Mr. Tigerskunk again reacting as rude as in that common german forum once.

Where am I "rude" here?

Originally Posted by Alpha One

If you think you must skip to another platform because your game got a trainer then do so, what a ridiculous reason.

At least get some reading comprehension skills before answering.
I don't know how many times I have to state I don't have a problem with trainers for someone as you to understand.

Originally Posted by Alpha One

But be careful, other platforms can also be targeted.

see above

Originally Posted by Alpha One

Greets, the 'asocial' Alpha, Robin Hood in 2023 !

and now engage in childish polemics instead of engaging in a real discussion about why you don't have enough social skills to just get in contact with game devs like adult people would do.

Even when they told you that they'd rather prefer to.

What's keeping you from that?

[Tigerskunk]

Originally Posted by TCD

There's another thread 'Why is the homebrew scene on the Amiga not as impressive...' and I can't shake the feeling that the answer is somehow related to how this thread derailed.

And that is?

[Alpha One]

Originally Posted by Tigerskunk

Where am I "rude" here?
I don't know how many times I have to state I don't have a problem with trainers for someone as you to understand.

You surely have a problem with it, otherwise we wouldnt discuss this every time. And yes I understand, you want to be asked before, but what would your anwer be in this case ? "SURE, do a trainer, I would love to see that!".
I honestly don't believe it!

"... some people in this scene behave like asocials ..."

That's what I call 'rude', because in this case we are talking about me!