Removing yellowing from Amigas with peroxide - Page 24

BobbyBobBob · 15 September 2009, 11:37

i'm about to apply clear acrylic lacquer to my a600. can i just spray it directly on the a600, psu and mouse without taking them all apart? seeing as PCBs are often coated with clear acrylic anyway.

TGM · 15 September 2009, 15:28

I always thought baby wipes were the way to remove the yellow from cases? It worked wonders for me with my early PC boxes - I'll have to look at the state of my miggy 1200 and see if it's worth a go

DDNI · 15 September 2009, 16:30

Fook aint baby wipes meant for baby soft skin? I hate to think of what chemicals are in them if they can remove yellowing from plastics lol...

Supamax · 15 September 2009, 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGM

I always thought baby wipes were the way to remove the yellow from cases? It worked wonders for me with my early PC boxes

Could you name a specific product?

PulsatingQuasar · 24 September 2009, 13:27

Check out my atempts at the Dutch Amiga forum:

http://www.amigascene.nl/modules/mya...cat.php?cid=10

I just bought 2 liters 30% peroxide and mixed it with 4 liters of water. Then some Oxi and hey presto. Enough liquid to put an Elbox tower front plate under it. After 6 hours in the sun and it is as new.

So far I did some keyboards and some Elbox tower front plates. Still have a lot more to do. :-)

Merlin · 24 September 2009, 22:36

@ PQ

Nice work!!

Methanoid · 08 October 2009, 23:23

Some advice please from those who've done this.. (all ready to go with the chemicals, think I might need more Xanthan to make more than one batch as I have plenty of the other bits)....

After removal of yellowing... who has varnished/covered? Armor-All and AutoGlym have too many different products to safely buy.... I'm thinking Clear Acrylic Varnish but whats best....

Matt Silk or Gloss - (for Amiga).. I'm guessing silk as gloss might be too much shine?

Spray varnish or paint? Again I would hazard a guess at spray giving a better finish.

Like this one - ebay sale link

Views anyone?

My wife is very apprehensive of letting me mix chemicals in her blender

andreas · 09 October 2009, 02:19

This thread is really awesome!
Never seen this before...probably because at least 50% of Hardware problems forum is about capacitors, resistors and other electronic fiddling stuff!

Nice to have something about chemistry AND...

@Merlin & @rkauer & Zetr0

If I had a hat on, I'd lift it - NOW!!

There is nothing more important than an EXPERT on this matter, because:

- it helps idiots to think twice before doing idiotic things on their own account
(which may be irreversible in respect to their health)

- it helps amateurs to NOT experiment with the wrong things

- experts' hints are always invaluable

So a huge thanks for your participation.
In Germany, we can (or could, meanwhile) choose some sorts of "extended courses" 2 years before graduation. Mine were Maths and ... hah, yeah you guessed it - Chemistry.
So ... it's not all Greek to me what you've been pointing out in detail

(Although I did not study it, but the experiments just ROCKED...)

Some thing about Sodium hypochlorite:

You guys who use this for removing the yellowing from your Miggys are NUTS.
This stuff is known under DAN KLORIX (R) in France (but, albeit more rarely, in Germany too) and used for toilet cleaning!!!
My dentist uses it too, easily identifiable by that "squeaky clean toilet" smell (yuck!)

It stinks like hell, and as Merlin already pointed out, it also emits chlorine in gaseous state! This is nothing to make fun about; let alone the fact that it may cause the bleaching to get reversed (!) after awhile.

So guys, just stick to H2O2 and be happy with it.

Zetr0 · 09 October 2009, 02:26

@andreas

have you read the wiki

http://retr0bright.wikispaces.org

andreas · 09 October 2009, 02:32

Uh ... not yet, thanks for the link.

T_hairy_bootson · 09 October 2009, 08:06

This is truly an epic EAB thread

Merlin · 09 October 2009, 13:26

@ Methanoid

You need a spray acrylic with a UV absorber in it, that will take the UV light and re-emit it out at a different frequency that won't affect bromine (in the colour industry, they are called up-converters).

Most clear coat acrylics in aerosol cans are UV stabilised, have these chemicals in them and a gloss or satin finish one is OK. Spray the lacquer in light coats from about 10-12" away and you should achieve a very close match for the original textured plastic finish; if it's done right, you can't see it at all.

@ Andreas

Check the links in the Wiki- there was work also done in France at system-cfg forums and at Vintage Computer Forums; it really was a global effort when it came to tests and experiments. We could not have achieved all of this without their help...

Merlin · 09 October 2009, 23:20

Hi to all the Retr0brighters out there!

In keeping with the best spirits of product development, I think it's about time that we started work on Retr0bright Mk.2. There are probably quite a few ideas that we could add to the basic recipe, and this is where all of you come in.

I've started a discussion topic on the Retr0bright Wiki. Please feel free to add your ideas to this topic and we'll see what is possible - remember, we've already sort of proved the impossible with Retr0bright in the first place, so don't stifle your creativity.

Ultimately, we could end up with a whole range of open-source Retr0bright products.

Thinking caps on, people!!

Ioncannon · 16 October 2009, 21:00

Hi, new to these forums and I am amazed and overjoyed that the cursed yellowing problem was solved. I love to collect old electronics like computers and consoles, and hope to return them to mint condition.

I have a Commodore 64 (and floppy drive, monitor) that are victims of partial yellowing. Now videos speak better the pictures or words, so I saw someone do it to a SNES on youtube. What worries me, is after he completed it, the top half was a bright white, while the bottom (which rarely yellows) was the gray SNES color you see.

Does this procedure bleach/whiten plastics or is it a screw up on his part, or was that the original color of the plastic? If I do this on the C64, will it return it to it's gray color?

Footage of the SNES:
[ Show youtube player ]

Merlin · 16 October 2009, 22:25

My best advice is to use less than10% peroxide strength in the mix and do this indoors with a black light. If this is a prized item, don't do it outside, becuase if the gel dries out, the peroxide level goes through the roof and you end up with a white, ashen-looking 'bloom' on the surface where the peroxide has attacked the ABS polymer. Check the 'Problems and Pitfalls' area of the Wiki and you'll see what I mean.

The C64 you see on the front page of the Wiki was my original C64 from 1983 and yes, it really was that colour to start with. I treated my own C64 as a proof of concept experiment and if if had gone wrong, it was my own machine on the line. I used 35% peroxide but then I was monitoring this very closely.

I think Alex Jahn slightly overcooked his SNES in the Youtube video. There is another German video where the same thing happens with an Amiga 500 case. Take it slowly and you will get perfect results.

Ioncannon · 17 October 2009, 00:27

Is the 3% H2O2 used for disinfecting sufficient? After seeing the streaking cause by hair products, is there any other areas you can get H2O2 in higher concentration? Tomorrow getting my first Amiga (A600HD) which has severe yellowing so hope to clear it up! Will be posting some questions soon because of hardware problems it seems to have.

Zetr0 · 17 October 2009, 04:56

@Ioncannon

3% will take a VERY long time, and will also be spent very quickly, even if you put you component in a VAT of the stuff you would have to replace the solution many times before you get the results you want.

I would recomend anything above 8% as a good starting point, any less than that and it will be a struggle to get results.

remember the SLOWER you go, the more controll over the reaction YOU have, if you belt it out with 15%+ H2O2 problems can occur, I would suggest... as it will be your first time.... be patient, let it do the work for you... grab a couple of liters of 12% and mix it with a 1/3 ratio of water (that should give you about 8-9%) but a good two and a half liters of liquid =) this should be enough to submerge the top plastics in a small low tray or bowl.

IF you use a large walled bowl, I belive you could line this with Aluminium foil, this will help reflect the UV rays onto and around the item to be retr0-brited +)

Methanoid · 18 October 2009, 20:00

Some advice pls?

I made my solution about 17% by vol (diluted 35% by half) and added Vanish Oxi Action Intelligence Crystal White Plus... After 2-3 days it had improved it but hardly by enough and it wasnt heavily yellowed.

Could I have the wrong Oxi additive? Do I need to treat several times - this was soaking in solution in a glass bowl but without added UV as I dont have a UV light.

Dont wanna waste rest of H2O2...

Merlin · 18 October 2009, 20:46

@ Methanoid

The missing ingredient was the UV light... the Oxi additive is the correct one. If you have any fluorescent lights in your house, put the parts under that, as they emit some UV.

TjLaZer · 18 October 2009, 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Methanoid

Some advice pls?

I made my solution about 17% by vol (diluted 35% by half) and added Vanish Oxi Action Intelligence Crystal White Plus... After 2-3 days it had improved it but hardly by enough and it wasnt heavily yellowed.

Could I have the wrong Oxi additive? Do I need to treat several times - this was soaking in solution in a glass bowl but without added UV as I dont have a UV light.

Dont wanna waste rest of H2O2...

Not sure what you are trying to unyellow, keys maybe? I did not have too much luck doing keys this way. I left them in a jar and in the sun for ~4 days and it was marginally improved but not completely--which I thought it would as it was getting saturated the whole time and in the sun!

What worked for me extremely well is using Clairol Professional 40 Creme developer and a brush. Thats it, no Oxy or thickeners! The solution is creamy already and works great. I just brush the parts every 30 min or so and leave in the sun for 6 hours. Did this a few times if it was very yellow and the results were awesome!

Here is a shot of an Atari 65XE, it had very yellow keys. I simply brushed the keys every 30 min with a light coating. Never even dismantled the unit!

09 October 2009, 02:19	#468
andreas Zone Friend Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Germany Age: 50 Posts: 5,857	What a thread! This thread is really awesome! Never seen this before...probably because at least 50% of Hardware problems forum is about capacitors, resistors and other electronic fiddling stuff! Nice to have something about chemistry AND... @Merlin & @rkauer & Zetr0 If I had a hat on, I'd lift it - NOW!! There is nothing more important than an EXPERT on this matter, because: - it helps idiots to think twice before doing idiotic things on their own account (which may be irreversible in respect to their health) - it helps amateurs to NOT experiment with the wrong things - experts' hints are always invaluable So a huge thanks for your participation. In Germany, we can (or could, meanwhile) choose some sorts of "extended courses" 2 years before graduation. Mine were Maths and ... hah, yeah you guessed it - Chemistry. So ... it's not all Greek to me what you've been pointing out in detail (Although I did not study it, but the experiments just ROCKED...) Some thing about Sodium hypochlorite: You guys who use this for removing the yellowing from your Miggys are NUTS. This stuff is known under DAN KLORIX (R) in France (but, albeit more rarely, in Germany too) and used for toilet cleaning!!! My dentist uses it too, easily identifiable by that "squeaky clean toilet" smell (yuck!) It stinks like hell, and as Merlin already pointed out, it also emits chlorine in gaseous state! This is nothing to make fun about; let alone the fact that it may cause the bleaching to get reversed (!) after awhile. So guys, just stick to H2O2 and be happy with it. Last edited by andreas; 09 October 2009 at 02:38.

17 October 2009, 04:56	#477
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	@Ioncannon 3% will take a VERY long time, and will also be spent very quickly, even if you put you component in a VAT of the stuff you would have to replace the solution many times before you get the results you want. I would recomend anything above 8% as a good starting point, any less than that and it will be a struggle to get results. remember the SLOWER you go, the more controll over the reaction YOU have, if you belt it out with 15%+ H2O2 problems can occur, I would suggest... as it will be your first time.... be patient, let it do the work for you... grab a couple of liters of 12% and mix it with a 1/3 ratio of water (that should give you about 8-9%) but a good two and a half liters of liquid =) this should be enough to submerge the top plastics in a small low tray or bowl. IF you use a large walled bowl, I belive you could line this with Aluminium foil, this will help reflect the UV rays onto and around the item to be retr0-brited +) Last edited by Zetr0; 17 October 2009 at 05:02.

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15 September 2009, 11:37	#461
BobbyBobBob ICE CREAM Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Edinburgh UK Posts: 35	i'm about to apply clear acrylic lacquer to my a600. can i just spray it directly on the a600, psu and mouse without taking them all apart? seeing as PCBs are often coated with clear acrylic anyway.

15 September 2009, 15:28	#462
TGM Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Leytonstone, UK Age: 44 Posts: 39	I always thought baby wipes were the way to remove the yellow from cases? It worked wonders for me with my early PC boxes - I'll have to look at the state of my miggy 1200 and see if it's worth a go

15 September 2009, 16:30	#463
DDNI Targ Explorer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 5,433	Fook aint baby wipes meant for baby soft skin? I hate to think of what chemicals are in them if they can remove yellowing from plastics lol...

24 September 2009, 13:27	#465
PulsatingQuasar Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Netherlands Posts: 57	Check out my atempts at the Dutch Amiga forum: http://www.amigascene.nl/modules/mya...cat.php?cid=10 I just bought 2 liters 30% peroxide and mixed it with 4 liters of water. Then some Oxi and hey presto. Enough liquid to put an Elbox tower front plate under it. After 6 hours in the sun and it is as new. So far I did some keyboards and some Elbox tower front plates. Still have a lot more to do. :-)

24 September 2009, 22:36	#466
Merlin AmiBay MegaMod Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Manchester, UK Age: 62 Posts: 1,163	@ PQ Nice work!!

08 October 2009, 23:23	#467
Methanoid Retired Quartex Sysop Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Roman Verulamium Age: 58 Posts: 1,874	Some advice please from those who've done this.. (all ready to go with the chemicals, think I might need more Xanthan to make more than one batch as I have plenty of the other bits).... After removal of yellowing... who has varnished/covered? Armor-All and AutoGlym have too many different products to safely buy.... I'm thinking Clear Acrylic Varnish but whats best.... Matt Silk or Gloss - (for Amiga).. I'm guessing silk as gloss might be too much shine? Spray varnish or paint? Again I would hazard a guess at spray giving a better finish. Like this one - ebay sale link Views anyone? My wife is very apprehensive of letting me mix chemicals in her blender

09 October 2009, 02:26	#469
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	@andreas have you read the wiki http://retr0bright.wikispaces.org

09 October 2009, 02:32	#470
andreas Zone Friend Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Germany Age: 50 Posts: 5,857	Uh ... not yet, thanks for the link.

09 October 2009, 08:06	#471
T_hairy_bootson Workbitch 1.3 Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Age: 47 Posts: 2,084	This is truly an epic EAB thread

09 October 2009, 13:26	#472
Merlin AmiBay MegaMod Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Manchester, UK Age: 62 Posts: 1,163	@ Methanoid You need a spray acrylic with a UV absorber in it, that will take the UV light and re-emit it out at a different frequency that won't affect bromine (in the colour industry, they are called up-converters). Most clear coat acrylics in aerosol cans are UV stabilised, have these chemicals in them and a gloss or satin finish one is OK. Spray the lacquer in light coats from about 10-12" away and you should achieve a very close match for the original textured plastic finish; if it's done right, you can't see it at all. @ Andreas Check the links in the Wiki- there was work also done in France at system-cfg forums and at Vintage Computer Forums; it really was a global effort when it came to tests and experiments. We could not have achieved all of this without their help...

09 October 2009, 23:20	#473
Merlin AmiBay MegaMod Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Manchester, UK Age: 62 Posts: 1,163	Hi to all the Retr0brighters out there! In keeping with the best spirits of product development, I think it's about time that we started work on Retr0bright Mk.2. There are probably quite a few ideas that we could add to the basic recipe, and this is where all of you come in. I've started a discussion topic on the Retr0bright Wiki. Please feel free to add your ideas to this topic and we'll see what is possible - remember, we've already sort of proved the impossible with Retr0bright in the first place, so don't stifle your creativity. Ultimately, we could end up with a whole range of open-source Retr0bright products. Thinking caps on, people!!

16 October 2009, 21:00	#474
Ioncannon Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Canada Posts: 24	Hi, new to these forums and I am amazed and overjoyed that the cursed yellowing problem was solved. I love to collect old electronics like computers and consoles, and hope to return them to mint condition. I have a Commodore 64 (and floppy drive, monitor) that are victims of partial yellowing. Now videos speak better the pictures or words, so I saw someone do it to a SNES on youtube. What worries me, is after he completed it, the top half was a bright white, while the bottom (which rarely yellows) was the gray SNES color you see. Does this procedure bleach/whiten plastics or is it a screw up on his part, or was that the original color of the plastic? If I do this on the C64, will it return it to it's gray color? Footage of the SNES: [ Show youtube player ]

16 October 2009, 22:25	#475
Merlin AmiBay MegaMod Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Manchester, UK Age: 62 Posts: 1,163	My best advice is to use less than10% peroxide strength in the mix and do this indoors with a black light. If this is a prized item, don't do it outside, becuase if the gel dries out, the peroxide level goes through the roof and you end up with a white, ashen-looking 'bloom' on the surface where the peroxide has attacked the ABS polymer. Check the 'Problems and Pitfalls' area of the Wiki and you'll see what I mean. The C64 you see on the front page of the Wiki was my original C64 from 1983 and yes, it really was that colour to start with. I treated my own C64 as a proof of concept experiment and if if had gone wrong, it was my own machine on the line. I used 35% peroxide but then I was monitoring this very closely. I think Alex Jahn slightly overcooked his SNES in the Youtube video. There is another German video where the same thing happens with an Amiga 500 case. Take it slowly and you will get perfect results.

17 October 2009, 00:27	#476
Ioncannon Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Canada Posts: 24	Is the 3% H2O2 used for disinfecting sufficient? After seeing the streaking cause by hair products, is there any other areas you can get H2O2 in higher concentration? Tomorrow getting my first Amiga (A600HD) which has severe yellowing so hope to clear it up! Will be posting some questions soon because of hardware problems it seems to have.

18 October 2009, 20:00	#478
Methanoid Retired Quartex Sysop Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Roman Verulamium Age: 58 Posts: 1,874	Some advice pls? I made my solution about 17% by vol (diluted 35% by half) and added Vanish Oxi Action Intelligence Crystal White Plus... After 2-3 days it had improved it but hardly by enough and it wasnt heavily yellowed. Could I have the wrong Oxi additive? Do I need to treat several times - this was soaking in solution in a glass bowl but without added UV as I dont have a UV light. Dont wanna waste rest of H2O2...

18 October 2009, 20:46	#479
Merlin AmiBay MegaMod Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Manchester, UK Age: 62 Posts: 1,163	@ Methanoid The missing ingredient was the UV light... the Oxi additive is the correct one. If you have any fluorescent lights in your house, put the parts under that, as they emit some UV.

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