Was anyone else disappointed with the A1200?

[xavlahaye]

By the mid-90s in Southern France where I come from, I only had one friend with a PC on which we played Doom, the 3d was making me feel sick to be honest, and MS-DOS was just scary. Microsoft was considered evil and PCs were still quite expensive while being completely unsexy. Macs were super expensive AND boring. Console gaming was expensive too
I had several friends with Amigas and I wanted one so bad. I managed to convince my parents to buy me an Escom 1200HD with Blizzard 1230. This is quite late I realize but the cost/performance ratio was not that important, this is what I wanted.
I must have had it for 2 years from 1995 to 1997 before selling it to finance a piano keyboard.
During the first lockdown, I had time and money to get a 1200 again and I don't regret it. It's the perfect hobby computer to reconnect with what made you like computers in the first place!
Nowdays, the 1200 is upgraded with 060/RTG/WIFI/sampler/midi-MT32/shitloads of ram/Graphic tablet on a second serial port,PCMCIA SCSI: all this with the 1200 still in the original case. The machine is rock stable and fast, it's a pleasure to use it.
I don't think the design was bad at all considering everything I do with it 30 years after and how much you can expand it!
It's for me one of the best computers ever made, not so disappointing!

[Thorham]

Originally Posted by xavlahaye

It's for me one of the best computers ever made, not so disappointing!

[TEG]

Originally Posted by xavlahaye

It's for me one of the best computers ever made, not so disappointing!

Unfortunately what was disappointing was the company that distributed it.

[Bruce Abbott]

Originally Posted by hammer

A1200's PCMCIA defaults to "memory only" mode before switching to 64K IO mode.

Surprisingly that is something I don't know much about. On a RAM board that is 'PCMCIA friendly', can you have 8MB and still use a PCMCIA network card?

[xavlahaye]

Originally Posted by TEG

Unfortunately what was disappointing was the company that distributed it.

Agreed, just wanted to throw a bit of love for the 1200

[TEG]

Originally Posted by xavlahaye

Agreed, just wanted to throw a bit of love for the 1200

Yeah, I thought that the two replies taken together would be a good attempt to answer the initial question and the dilemma we face.

[sandruzzo]

It is incredible that without any upgrade, Paula on Aga can push 56hz and 14 bit audio! Why both blitter and copper can't take advantage of Doublescan as Paula ?

[pandy71]

Originally Posted by sandruzzo

It is incredible that without any upgrade, Paula on Aga can push 56hz and 14 bit audio! Why both blitter and copper can't take advantage of Doublescan as Paula ?

On ECS it can be 56kHz too.

[hammer]

Originally Posted by Bruce Abbott

Surprisingly that is something I don't know much about. On a RAM board that is 'PCMCIA friendly', can you have 8MB and still use a PCMCIA network card?

PCMCIA "Memory only" mode is for RAM expansion addons.

PCMCIA "Memory and IO" mode is for IO (64K address) addons.

"Memory only" RAM expansion wasn't ideal use for laptops since can't be made as a semi-permanent system RAM configuration (i.e. hanging on the side has less durability) and was displaced by internal SIMMs and SO-DIMMs.

PCMCIA memory-only expansion cards flopped in the PC world.

Laptops have added mobility premium that is matching with market demand. A600 is not a laptop and it looks like a toy computer when compared to A500's full-size keyboard.

PCMCIA doesn't allow for CPU acceleration addons and is effectively an anti-GVP job.

[hammer]

Originally Posted by Bruce Abbott

That would be pointless when Commodore couldn't even produce enough chips to meet demand for their own products. Besides, nobody (apart from a tiny number of 3rd party Amiga hardware producers) was interested in them.

AMD/NVidea's business model was based around the PC, which was all about 3rd parties making stuff to feed the 'industry standard'. Without that they were nothing.

AMD and NVidea are the 3rd parties.

AMD is 1st party for its reference designs and the X86-64 instruction set. No other CPU manufacturer is allowed to use AMD's CPU socket platforms.

When AMD told motherboard manufacturers to limit AM5 SoC voltage to 1.3V mandate, they complied.

For example, the newly established Framework Computer's AMD-powered laptop is based on AMD's reference laptop designs.

--------
Intel is 1st party for its reference designs, IA-32, and AVX extensions. No other CPU manufacturer is allowed to use Intel's CPU socket platforms. Ask VIA for the experience.

When Intel told motherboard manufacturers to follow Intel's power profile mandate for LGA1700, they complied.

For example, Framework Computer's Intel laptops are based on Intel's reference laptop designs.
--------
NVidia is 1st party for its reference designs. EVGA CEO is complaining about NVIDIA's strict adherence to NVIDIA's reference design and allowances.

Intel's, AMD's, and NVIDIA's leverage is supply restriction.

The governance for the PC platform is jointly administrated by Intel, Microsoft, and AMD.

--------

The existence of Commodore UK's A1500 to block a certain A1500 clone.


https://bigbookofamigahardware.com/b...uct.aspx?id=19
Amiga 2200 clone based on C= CD32.

Unfortunately this machine was never sold to the public and only one prototype is believed to be in existance. The A2200 was based around the same motherboard as the CD32, but due to Commodore's demise it was never released, largely due to the fact that the motherboards (65,000) destined for the A2200 were still held in Commodore's warehouse and seized by creditors. In addition the CD32 motherboard, an additional unit was attached to the expansion port on the motherboard called the Agent 88 which provided additional expansion capabilities such as the accelerator slot and optional SCSI effectively creating a new motherboard.

A contract was signed to allocate 65,000 CD32 motherboards for the Amiga 2200 clone.


------
AGA Amiga install base
Germany:
Amiga 1200 = 95,500
Amiga CD32 = 25,000
Amiga 4000/030 = 7,500
Amiga 4000/040 = 3,800
Sub-total: 131,800

https://web.archive.org/web/20230726...ory/sales.html

UK:
Amiga 1200 (Oct - Dec 1992) = 44,000 (Amiga Format May 1993)
Amiga 1200 (Jan - Aug 1993) = 100,000 (Amiga Format September 1993)
Amiga 1200 (Xmas 1993) = 160,000 (Amiga Format 56 Feb 1994)
Amiga CD32 (Xmas 1993) = 70,000 (Amiga Format 56 Feb 1994)
Sub-total: 374,000

AGA install base from Amiga's strongest markets: +505,800.

------------------------------
Amiga 2200 (based on CD32), https://bigbookofamigahardware.com/b...uct.aspx?id=19
65,000 CD32 motherboards assigned to Amitech's Amiga 2200.

Potential AGA install base: +570,800 units. 165,000 Akiko C2P capable.

This "Amiga 2200" has Akiko C2P on a desktop Amiga computer.
$1199, 2 MB 32-bit Fast RAM, 210 MB HDD, 880K FDD. A valid 386DX-16/386DX-20 SVGA competitor with chunky pixels.

$1599, 68030 CPU @ 40Mhz / 68882 FPU @ 40Mhz, 4 MB 32-bit Fast RAM, 1.76 MB FDD, 420 MB HDD. It seems the 4MB Fast RAM/68030@ 40 Mhz/Akiko C2P combo is targeting a certain PC game.

It can be made cheaper with a lower-capacity HDD (e.g. 120 MB or 150 MB), no FPU, no ISA slots, no Compatibility Slot, no CPU Fast Slot (A4000/A3000 series compatible).

Common features for Amiga 2200
1 x 150 pin "Local Bus slot" (Same as trapdoor slot in an A1200)
1 x "Compatibility Slot" (for some sort of 486 bridgeboard)
1 x CPU Fast Slot (A4000/A3000 series compatible)
4 x Inactive 16bit ISA slots.
7 x Other Slots (probably Zorro II or III).
1 x CD32 card with Akiko C2P.
Optional SCSI.

The "Agent 88" card is attached to the CD32 card's expansion bus.

AUD (Australian Dollar) and CDN (Canadian Dollar) are close. The economics of scale is 65,000 units for this batch.

Lew's direction is pretty good, but Commodore runs out of time and money.

For H2 1993, Amiga 2200-2 configuration and price range are on my list. The added flexibility for A1200 and A4000 CPU acceleration cards is very good. I like "Amiga 2200" to replace my A3000. That A600 debacle needs to be removed from the timeline.

AmiTech's CD32-based A2200 is a clone and it's different from the ECS-based "A1000Jr" (A2200).

Commodore Canada, Commodore UK, and Commodore Netherlands could have continued trading if the CD32's warehouse wasn't in the Philippines or any country with tight relations with the USA.

Ali hired the wrong head of engineering i.e. it should have been Lew Eggebrecht from at least 1989.

[dreadnought]

Originally Posted by TEG

Because of Defender of the Crown, SOTB, Lotus Turbo Esprit, Pinball Dream, etc... which set the level. It was part of the soul of the Amiga, what made the legend and why you wanted the machine.

Not to mention the trackers part with the dreaming amount of floppies samples which were circulating AND the incredible digits read in real time from floppies! This was mind blowing.

An Amiga without Paula wouldn't have been the Amiga.

Umm, I actually got an Amiga because of DotC's graphics, not sound. And I'm pretty sure it was similar for many others. Sure people would praise the music in SotB too, but it wasn't the real reason why it's famous.

But anyhow, I'm not sure how did you make a leap from my "it's possible to enjoy games without hi-quality (or sometimes even any) sound" to "An Amiga without Paula", which really is as far from what I was trying to say as possible.

[TEG]

Originally Posted by dreadnought

Umm, I actually got an Amiga because of DotC's graphics, not sound. And I'm pretty sure it was similar for many others. Sure people would praise the music in SotB too, but it wasn't the real reason why it's famous.

It was a whole, DotC introduction music is epic and for me, it glorify the graphics and set the ambience for the rest of the game.

Originally Posted by dreadnought

But anyhow, I'm not sure how did you make a leap from my "it's possible to enjoy games without hi-quality (or sometimes even any) sound" to "An Amiga without Paula", which really is as far from what I was trying to say as possible.

Because of the expectancy that was made once you have witnessed such an experience aforementioned. So yeah, for my part, the "pew-pew" games were not enjoyed so much after that. Perhaps it's me but the games I remember had clearly good sound tracks. A least a good intro. Perhaps my memory is biased due to music of cracked intro.

[sandruzzo]

Originally Posted by pandy71

On ECS it can be 56kHz too.

How?

[hammer]

Originally Posted by sandruzzo

How?

With 15 kHz screen modes, Paula has up to 28867 effective DMA cycles per second.

With double scan screen modes, Paula has up to 57 kHz (57734). Nothing is free and ECS's color display capability is degraded.

[Gorf]

Originally Posted by sandruzzo

It is incredible that without any upgrade, Paula on Aga can push 56hz and 14 bit audio! Why both blitter and copper can't take advantage of Doublescan as Paula ?

ECS and AGA can output more pixels per DMA slot (SHRES, Productivity ...)
The number of DMA slots per second stays the same, it is still the same old 3.5MHz cycle like in the A1000.
So Copper and Blitter can not do more work.
But Audio DMA gets called every display line - no matter how long the line is!

All video modes above 15kHz do have shorter lines but usually more of them, hence Audio DMA occurs more often

Look up "video line frequency" on Wiki or ask your favorite AI.

For the DMA slots per line on Amiga view:
http://amigadev.elowar.com/read/ADCD.../node02D4.html

[Promilus]

I wouldn't call audio subsystem dependence of screen resolution particular advantage...

[sandruzzo]

Ecs I Know it, but not OCS. It is still fascinating.

[Gorf]

Originally Posted by Promilus

I wouldn't call audio subsystem dependence of screen resolution particular advantage...

It is certainly not ... same goes for the Floppy DMA.

in a ideal world Paula would not be part of the trio, but Agnus and Denise would stand alone, and Paula would join DMAC and an (optional) HD controller.

[sandruzzo]

Is not only about DMA, but buses

[Gorf]

Originally Posted by sandruzzo

Is not only about DMA, but buses

Can you elaborate?