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#441 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 128
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The last few pages have been fairly eye opening in places. I hope it’s not the case but this ‘debate’ seems to be very conveniently timed. The community as a whole is a much richer place thanks to people like Phillipe and the Apollo team, who despite overly aggressive criticism continue with their projects unhindered, thankfully. Everyone has a place but I don’t think anyone can expect to sit in judgement.
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#442 |
The show must go on.
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I think that the big commercial party's like Individual computers / Amigakit are ruining the atmosphere on this board. More and more amiga products are made by enthusiastic users, and they are starting to feel it. The result can we seen here. I sold most of my Amiga gear after Amigakit started to buy old software, messing around with it and slapped there own sticker on it, or pay per MHz accelerators. you are vultures and I will never buy anything from you again. I can only hope that the owner of eab one day decides to ban all the big commercial sellers, so we can go back to our beloved hobby.
Sorry but I'am sick of this. |
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#443 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2001
Location: ?
Posts: 19,646
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To you. I never use that garbage and get keyboards without them.
I don't understand this alternate case project. There's no hole for the keyboard? How does it work? Last edited by Amiga1992; 20 October 2015 at 17:35. |
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#444 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Milford, MA
Posts: 11
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#445 | |
Code Kitten
![]() Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Montreal/Canadia
Age: 52
Posts: 1,178
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I doubt Jens has that much power or is attempting to manipulate anyone. He got dubious information from biased sources and instead of asking them to prove their assertions he made them public. This is disgraceful but that's about it. If you have never made such a mistake, good for you but that's only human. As many have said, it's up to him to close this chapter gracefully but there is no need to get into conspiracy theories. I am convinced Jens is a honest person and I am not going to stop buying his products because of this. |
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#446 | ||
Registered User
Join Date: May 2001
Location: ?
Posts: 19,646
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Jens Schoenefeld makes some really good stuff for your Amiga and despite his opinions or how he deals with online communication, his value to the scene is unquestionable and I very much disagree with him being called unfair or other things just because he thinks a certain project is improperly led and overpriced ( I agree with some of those points too, for example). Last edited by Amiga1992; 20 October 2015 at 23:49. |
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#447 |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 4,348
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#448 |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: berlin/germany
Posts: 1,054
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afaik there is a number of people who own vampire v1 boards and have been delivered adopted apollo core and also there are some who have development version of v2. head straight to the appropriate thread here to see results.
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#449 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Sweden
Age: 50
Posts: 2,974
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Just because they are in the middle of a debug process you cant simply dismiss them as non working... |
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#450 |
electricky.
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: out in the wild
Posts: 1,256
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*sigh* you're digging out every detail now.
idrougge is right, I don't see any systematic approach to the CPU-on-FPGA projects right now. I wanted to introduce a scientific touch to that work by coordinating a joint effort to write a 68k test suite. Obviously, this is a lot of work, but IMHO it's the only way to really *prove* that the newly-developed CPU is doing what the original 68k is doing. See on a1k.org what that turned into: I was accused of making the project too expensive; any and all reasoning *for* a scientific approach was slapped down. Merely asking for the way that the core is tested has gotten me the role of the bad guy. That's not the way to make a product. Yes, there is a core that runs a benchmark, and it runs that benchmark really fast. However, just starting the Amiga and run a few programs does not prove that the CPU is 100% working. It's not a product, but a proof of concept. It does have a chance to become a product, though. Lots of time has passed since I've made my comments about a requirement for a test suite. Maybe they did something like that now - I don't know. Jens |
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#451 |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Sweden
Age: 50
Posts: 2,974
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@jens
A tool to test compatibility may be nice have, sure.. but in a larger contex.. is it even relevant? Its not like the original 68k family is without issues.. how many programs crashed on a 060 when it came out? For most ppl it will be enough that "almost everything" runs, not being concerned if the CPU actually behaves like a genuine 68k.. whatever definition that might be. The FPGA arcade team had a similar approach.. bug / beta testing until "good enough" might not be the most scientific way to do it, but for the end user the method works well enough. Its not like we are talking about mainstream products here that will sell to millions of average joe noobs.. ;-) Besides.. unlike accelerators using genuine 68 parts, the FPGA core is "alive" and fixable through future updates which mean it will only get better over time... but... Im stating the obcious here... |
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#452 |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 527
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Yes it is relevant.
Otherwise people will in 25years /still/ complain. See the Apollo cards. Were basically o.k. then. Some will get the idea that there are glitches without a proper test suite. Most will complain from Day 1. Cheers, McT |
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#453 |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Sweden
Age: 50
Posts: 2,974
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Im certainly not against the idea of useful tool..however - Its not like a test suite that a bunch of ppl create (and the test tool itself can be buggy of course) will solve all issues. A lot of incompatibilities are there for other reasons.
The world will never run out of whining ppl, thats for sure. Im simply saying that what will make the end user satisfied is how well the product works in 99% of everyday usage cases not so much what value a test tool returns. But if you can use that tool to more quickly arrive there, fine. |
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#454 | ||||
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: berlin/germany
Posts: 1,054
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http://www.a1k.org/forum/showthread....hlight=vampire Quote:
you made a proposal to develop that test suite, but none on the forum reacted. why are people behind apollo core responsible for that? they have their own work on their hands. Quote:
admittedly, what it doesnt run is kickstart 3.9 apparently, but they are actively working on compatibility. so while i wouldnt expect it to be 100% compatible to each of the 68k processor options, it may have a chance (maybe) to be as compatible to them as they were to each other, or better. |
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#455 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kansas
Posts: 1,284
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Last edited by matthey; 21 October 2015 at 21:34. |
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#456 |
electricky.
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: out in the wild
Posts: 1,256
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Wawa:
Granted, I was not very polite in that thread. However, pretty much of what I suspected has turned out to be true: - the Vampire 600 demo that was presented was written specifically without instructions not implemented or not working correctly. Gunnar confirmed that a few posts later. I was wrong about the RISC assumption, but I was right about it not being 68k yet. - The Vampire 600 FPGA is way too small for a full implementation of what Gunnar was suggesting - Gunnar specifically avoided answering critical questions, giving more reason to believe that it's more like "I have an idea, let's try it", rather than careful planning and execution of an extremely complex job (see post#44 of that thread) If you read further in that thread, you don't only see me interested, but also with a few suggestions. What you do not see in that thread is the wave of negativity that reached my mailbox. Similar accusations as what you can see here: A friendly variant would be "you're not the only one who can pull off a project". What Gunnar presented lately is impressive. However, to make this a product (which is what many people want), it's still a LONG way to go. While this is a work-in-progress, there is really no need for me to provide any input, other than pointing out that it is what it is: Work in progress. Jens |
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#457 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Lisbon
Posts: 65
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Schoenfeld about your project its possible to replace DB23 for a DB25 and cut the 2 pins, so we can use genlocks and if needed create DB25 to VGA (RGB) or put a PIN header for later if people want to use it?
Can do the same for external floppy connector. Or / and after this project what you think by creating a motherboard with ATX compliance, in that way you don't have any restrictions to have space for other expansions cards, like zorro slots, expansion video slots (two maybe or just one) and pci (inactive or active, maybe talking with Elbox to give you hand). Also its possible to tease a bit, by showing any picture of your admirable work? |
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#458 | |||||
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: berlin/germany
Posts: 1,054
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#459 |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: berlin/germany
Posts: 1,054
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jens, im not sure btw, if its good to pursue this ot here. mine was only a remark, i dont want to flood all the space with it. as far as im concerned im off. one can starta separate topic if necessary.
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#460 |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Melbourne/Australia
Posts: 4,408
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This thread is meant to be about a new motherboard isn't it?
Let's try and stay on topic peoples.. |
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