Was anyone else disappointed with the A1200?

[Gorf]

Originally Posted by Mikidi

but... for Amiga 1200?

Symphonie Pro
AProSys Music-Editor
ArtOfNoise
Ct

[AestheticDebris]

Originally Posted by Mikidi

Oktalyzer was for KS1.2 and Octamed has only 4 audio channels.

Octamed is definitely 8 channel, the clue is literally in the name "Octa" = 8

Obviously they're faked and mixed onto the Amiga's 4 channel sound chip, but that's unavoidable without adding additional hardware.

[pixie]

Originally Posted by AestheticDebris

Octamed is definitely 8 channel, the clue is literally in the name "Octa" = 8

Obviously they're faked and mixed onto the Amiga's 4 channel sound chip, but that's unavoidable without adding additional hardware.

I wouldn't say they are faked, they use CPU whereas hardware ones doesn't

[Gorf]

Well actually the Amiga has only two real channels: left and right.
Anything else is mixed, either by hardware (Paula) or CPU.

[Mikidi]

Originally Posted by Mikidi

.. but with not A1200 since there are no audio soundcards for it.

Apparently there was some soundcards for A1200, like Delfina 1200.
To keep things in topic here, Delfina 1200 and Digibooster Pro (which in theory supports Delfina 1200) were both released in 1998 - way too late in the game.

[Mikidi]

Originally Posted by Gorf

Symphonie Pro
AProSys Music-Editor
ArtOfNoise
Ct

First one is mostly for A4000 and rest are more FM-synth based. There was not much of userbase for these softwares, I wonder why.. maybe they sucked?

Originally Posted by Gorf

Well actually the Amiga has only two real channels: left and right.
Anything else is mixed, either by hardware (Paula) or CPU.

Yes. Imagine saying this someone with PC with Soundblaster in 1992-1994 as a selling point for A1200. I bet they would buy at least two Amigas right on the spot.

[Dunny]

IIRC we got an 8-channel tracker before any other platform. I had 8 channels on my A1000 using voices8

[NorthWay]

Originally Posted by dreadnought

Later years, full in-denial syndrome.

I bought the PS2 as soon as it arrived (my first console).
I bought my first PC in 2006 to play WoW. That is probably the only game I have played pc-wise.

[Gorf]

Originally Posted by Mikidi

First one is mostly for A4000 and rest are more FM-synth based. There was not much of userbase for these softwares, I wonder why.. maybe they sucked?

The first (Symphonie Pro) only needs a fast CPU. Nothing A4000 specific.
You were explicitly asking for a more "modern" software ...

ArtOfNoise is a typical 8 channel tracker for samples + some synth capabilities - works fine in the A1200.

Ct is a tracker with some Soundtracker / Protracker compatibility and up to 255 channels and not only supports samples but also midi and synth.

Yes. Imagine saying this someone with PC with Soundblaster in 1992-1994 as a selling point for A1200. I bet they would buy at least two Amigas right on the spot.

Why? The Soundblaster has also only two output channels:
left and right - like the Amiga

[NorthWay]

Originally Posted by sandruzzo

That's why DSP on Amiga doesn't make sense

Apart from getting a free modem a DSP would have solved two sides of the same problem in one:
You would get a 16-bit sound update (and retro-fitable if the hw for a particular model was developed),
and it would be ABI controlled and the number of channels would be close to an implementation detail and not mired in endless discussions about how many channels and bits the audio should have. The audio "channels" wouldn't need to be exclusive any longer. IMNSHO the Right solution.

[NorthWay]

Originally Posted by PortuguesePilot

It did start its inception as a project for a games console: the Lorraine.

That is debatable, isn't it?
The original design was a classic engineers-around-the-lunch-table doing napkin math and napkin drawings back in 1979. The 2600 was already done and the 400/800 - which were (mostly) computers and not consoles - was just sent off to Atari manufacturing. I'd expect them to continue designing #3 as a computer, even though I'm sure there were plenty of features they were willing to trade away as necessary.
For the Lorraine they plainly picked up the design again (and adjusted it), but I still can't imagine they themselves believed in it being able to function usefully as a console with only 32K ram - that is 320x200x4 blowing 100% of it away. No wonder there is a Copper in there to be able to frugally ramp up or down memory requirements dynamically down the screen as well as any other tricks to get the most out of memory.

[grelbfarlk]

Originally Posted by Gorf

The first (Symphonie Pro) only needs a fast CPU. Nothing A4000 specific.
You were explicitly asking for a more "modern" software ...

ArtOfNoise is a typical 8 channel tracker for samples + some synth capabilities - works fine in the A1200.

Ct is a tracker with some Soundtracker / Protracker compatibility and up to 255 channels and not only supports samples but also midi and synth.



Why? The Soundblaster has also only two output channels:
left and right - like the Amiga

The latest A4000 I'm building up has 10 channels! What no! Yes!
SBLive 7.1, PLUS Two channels on Paula.

I'm not sure the 7.1 works, but at least there's stereo front and back, so that's at least six (including Paula).


Again A1200 disappoints.

[hammer]

Originally Posted by pixie

Which is how Nvidia uses their top of the line 4090s... as an halo product.

Steam survey suggests more people bought the RTX 4090 than the Steam Deck, along with millions of other RTX 40-series GPUs.

https://www.tomshardware.com/video-g...40-series-gpus
Steam survey suggests more people bought the RTX 4090 than the Steam Deck — along with millions of other RTX 40-series GPUs
Published: January 3, 2024.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/rt...l-rx-6000-gpus
Nvidia's RTX 3090 Has Apparently Sold More Units Than AMD's Entire RX 6000 Series Lineup.
Published: August 5, 2021

The gaming PC market's size is a titan size monster compared to the Amiga's 1990-1991 golden era.

--------

https://www.vgchartz.com/article/456...etime-in-2023/
Report: Steam Deck to Surpass an Estimated 3 Million Units Sold Lifetime in 2023 - Sales


-------

For November 2022,
https://www.tweaktown.com/news/89600...ves/index.html
Launch sales for RTX 40 series
RTX 4080: 30,000
RTX 4090: 130,000 (runs out of stock in Nov 2022).

[hammer]

Originally Posted by Gorf

No, there is not a shred of evidence to support your claim.

Are you claiming the PC wasn't the dominant desktop computer platform during 1990 and beyond?

Originally Posted by Gorf

Moore's law or at least its effects were well know to all customers of digital devices. This is not even limited to computers.

According to Dataquest November 1989, VGA crossed more than 50 percent market share in 1989 i.e. 56%.

http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/c...lysis_1989.pdf

Low-End PC Graphics Market Share by Standard Type
Estimated Worldwide History and Forecast

Total low-end PC graphic chipset shipment history and forecast
1987 = 9.2. million, VGA 16.4% market share i.e. 1.5088 million VGA.
1988 = 11.1 million, VGA 34.2% i.e. 1.51 million VGA.
1989 = 13.7 million, VGA 54.6% i.e. 3.80 million VGA.
1990 = 14.3 million, VGA 66.4% i.e. 9.50 million VGA.
1991 = 15.8 million, VGA 76.6% i.e. 12.10 million VGA.
1992 = 16.4 million, VGA 84.2% i.e. 13.81 million VGA.
1993 = 18.3 million, VGA 92.4% i.e. 16.9 million VGA.

PC has about 57.61 million VGA install base during 1993.

The estimate for the Amiga AGA install base is about 600,000 units. PC VGA clone crushed the Amiga AGA.

The lifetime sales for NEC's PC98 platform are about 18 million and the PC has no problems defeating this non-PC X86-based platform.

Should I post Dataquest worldwide CPU market share again? You're NOT going win this debate.


Again, http://archive.computerhistory.org/r...-05-01-acc.pdf
Page 86 of 417, DataQuest 1995

1994 Worldwide Microprocessor Market Share Ranking.

For 1994 Market Share
1. Intel, 73.2%
2. AMD, 8.6%
3. Motorola, 5.2%
4. IBM, 2.2%

Motorola's revenue in 1994 was less than AMD's.
-------------

Supply Base for 32-Bit Microprocessors—1994,
For Product's Share of Total 32-Bit-and-Up MPU Market 1994
Page 89 of 417,

68000, 17%
80386SX/SL, 3%
80386DX, 3%
80486SX, 16%
80486DX, 21%
683XX, 9%
68040, 3%
68030, 1%
68020, 3%
80960, 4%
AM29000, 1%
32X32, 3%
R3000/R4000, 1%
Sparc, 1%
Pentium, 4%
Others, 10%

Most X86 CPUs are unified under a single PC platform while it's fragmented on 68K. Without a standardized MMU for 68K, Motorola wasn't able to create a commoditized *nix desktop/workstation platform for its future. Learn from ARM.

Motorola wasn't able to convert 68000's success for 68020, 68030 and 68040.

AMD (2nd source X86) vs Motorola

AMD
80386DX = 3%, AMD has 85%, 2.55%
80386SX/SL = 3%, AMD has 56%, 1.68%
80486SX = 16%, AMD has 5%, 0.8
80486DX = 21%, AMD has 16%, 3.36%
AM29000 = 1%
Sub-total: 9.39%


Motorola
68040, 3%
68030, 1%
68020, 3%
683XX, 9% (68000 and semi-custom-CPU32)
Sub-total: 16%

AMD's AM29000 = 1%
AMD's 3rd gen CPU market share = 4.23%
AMD's 4th gen CPU market share = 4.16%
Subtotal: 9.39%

Motorola's 2nd gen CPU market share = 3%
Motorola's 3rd gen CPU market share = 1%
Motorola's 4th gen CPU market share = 3%
Subtotal: 7%

Motorola couldn't convert 68000's success for 68020/68030/68040. Moore's law linked with sales is not working for Motorola. Unlike Intel, Motorola wasn't serious enough about the degradation in its CPU distribution channels and end platforms.

With PCI, Intel took over PC's bus standard governance from NEC-led VESA's VLB, the Gang of nine's EISA, and IBM's MCA. The dominance of Intel and Microsoft duo created "Wintel".

683XX was a sloppy copy-and-paste with 68000 and kitbashed 68EC020 as CPU32.

[hammer]

Originally Posted by Mikidi

First one is mostly for A4000 and rest are more FM-synth based. There was not much of userbase for these softwares, I wonder why.. maybe they sucked?

Yes. Imagine saying this someone with PC with Soundblaster in 1992-1994 as a selling point for A1200. I bet they would buy at least two Amigas right on the spot.

The Amiga didn't have Doom. SoundBlaster is a secondary item.

[hammer]

Originally Posted by Amigajay

The general term ‘console’ can be related a lot of things, but ‘video games console’ was termed as a device that played video games and connected to the users television set.

As far as i recall the A500 never came with a TV modulator until the A500+ pack in 1991, so for something on the very fringe of being called a video games console, the A500 is not it!

As for after this point, feel free to call them ‘Computer Consoles’ !

My 1989 Amiga 500 Starter Kit https://amiga.abime.net/games/view/starter-kit was bundled with an A520 modulator. When my 1989 A500 Rev6A was traded for A3000, this A520 modulator was forgotten in a drawer. This A520 modulator was later reused for the A3000's connection with the school's large CRT TV.

When my A3000 was sold to a small Australian TV studio in 1996 via my Dad's Sydney CBD contacts, this A520 modulator was forgotten in a storage box. My friend abandoned his broken A500 Rev5 to me since his family had purchased a 486DX-33 PC and it had been in storage since 1993, I moved house in 2001 and until the COVID-19 lockdown. A500 Rev5's PSU was replaced to get it operational again. I purchased an A500 Rev 6A motherboard and ECS Agnus A from Germany. I re-used A500 Rev5's chips to repopulate Rev 6A. I found my A520 modulator and 1989 C= 1084S monitor in the storage box. My younger self wasn't able to diagnose A500 Rev5's hardware problem.

My current A500 is my second A500 Rev 6A unit.

A500 has a grayscale composite out and it can connect to a VCR or TV with composite video in. My A520 modulator, 1989 C= 1084S monitor and black desk were bundled with the mentioned Amiga 500 Starter Kit via a major Australian Norman Ross retailer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Norman


[ Show youtube player ]
A500's Batman pack unboxing with bundled A520 modulator. Commodore UK's MD has pretty good A500 game packs. Commodore UK was able to maintain a solid AGA A1200 /CD32 sales in 1993 with game packs.

[hammer]

Originally Posted by Mikidi

Oktalyzer was for KS1.2 and Octamed has only 4 audio channels.

Don't confuse the earlier MED and OctaMED.

Octa means 8.

The first version with the name OctaMED was released in 1991.

[hammer]

Originally Posted by grelbfarlk

The latest A4000 I'm building up has 10 channels! What no! Yes!
SBLive 7.1, PLUS Two channels on Paula.

I'm not sure the 7.1 works, but at least there's stereo front and back, so that's at least six (including Paula).

Again A1200 disappoints.

For PCI cards, both A1200 and A4000 need extra PCI bus boards with bridge chips. A1200 has access to both PiStorm32 and Mediator PCI 1200 TX.

[ Show youtube player ]
A1200 with Mediator PCI 1200 TX, Voodoo 3, and PiStorm32Lite/Emu68. On the CPU front, A1200 has the fastest classic 68K solution due to PiStorm32/Emu68/RPi 4B @ 3 Ghz overclock potential.

My A1200's PiStorm32/Emu68/RPi 4B has 2.2 Ghz overclock. PiStorm32/Emu68/RPi 4B can brute force AHI Paula.

A4000 has a Z3660 solution for 68K-to-ARM emulation with ARM Cortex A9 @ 766 Mhz. Cortex A9 can be overclocked.

[Thorham]

Originally Posted by grelbfarlk

Again A1200 disappoints.

It didn't disappoint me

[hammer]

Originally Posted by Mikidi

Apparently there was some soundcards for A1200, like Delfina 1200.
To keep things in topic here, Delfina 1200 and Digibooster Pro (which in theory supports Delfina 1200) were both released in 1998 - way too late in the game.

A1200's 16-bit PCMCIA Type II could support PC's laptop 16-bit PCMCIA Type II sound cards. The problem is drivers. https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?t=30840

Too bad PC Task (PC emulator) doesn't have direct access to A600/A1200's PCMCIA slot.

I have recycled my 16-bit PCMCIA WiFi and Ethernet laptop cards for A1200, but they were not major system sellers in the 1991-1994 time period.