12 May 2024, 15:31 | #4241 | ||
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They were replaced by PowerMacs. Quote:
AT&T marketed DSP3210 as "3D and multimedia DSP". FP64 is the scientific FP. FP32 is usually for game and multimedia FP e.g. SSE's or Altivec's quad packed FP32, and PC gaming GpGPUs. Last edited by hammer; 12 May 2024 at 15:40. |
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12 May 2024, 15:33 | #4242 |
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Amiga's nothing like a game console, it's a micrcomputer with advanced fx capabilities. In the Eighties this was normal design, the modularity became popular with the flood of cheap components from Asia later on (and spelled the death toll for all the micros).
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12 May 2024, 16:32 | #4243 |
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12 May 2024, 16:58 | #4244 | ||
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Which therefore explains why the DSP was only used by Apple on this model, if I'm not mistaken. Quote:
Their point was above all to say that at the time the choice of the AT&T DSP was questionable, since it was the Motorola 56001 which was the best known in computing. And from their point of view, it was also much better documented for its programming. At the same frequency, the 56001 develops more MIPS. This is why they explained to me that a 56001 at 32 MHz was equivalent in MIPS to a DSP 3210 at 50/60 MHz. So of course, the DSP 3210 had floating point calculation which the 56001 did not have. I'm not saying they're right about everything, just that some of the things they say seems relatively consistent. And, to my knowledge, these demomakers are the few who have really looked into the best use of a DSP on a computer, I mean to make it do what we didn't expect. What would be interesting is to know the price at the time of the 56001 in comparison to the DSP 3210 for example. Here is an article from 1992, from a French magazine which discussed the main points of the DSP. It says that the 56001 was the industry standard at the time. http://obligement.free.fr/articles/dsp.php And, as we have seen, the Commodore teams did not really look very far to decide which DSP to use in the Amiga. It seems that without the luck of this Amiga user with his DIY DSP 32 card and the fact that he knew someone related to Commodre, DSP technology would perhaps not even have been considered for the Amiga. But, as I have already said, I do not deny that the DSP 3210 would have been a significant contribution to the AGA and I even hoped that Commodore would then release the DSP card for the 1200. Last edited by babsimov; 12 May 2024 at 17:15. |
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12 May 2024, 18:47 | #4245 | |
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This is a theoretical number that the console most of the Time wasn't able to reach because it was costly hardware wise and even financially because of the ROM size. If the you take the 256 colors number as the standard on the SNES, then you should take the 262000 number as a standard on the AGA. |
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12 May 2024, 19:02 | #4246 |
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The point is people on the spectrum posting objective numbers in a thread about the subjective feeling if you felt disappointed by something that happened 31 years ago.
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12 May 2024, 20:38 | #4247 |
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12 May 2024, 20:50 | #4248 | |
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AT&T DSP was cheapest one and additionally supporting floats - closest competitor offering floats was TMS320C3x family - approx 10..20 times more expensive... Also strongly disagree with claim that 56k was industrial standard - industrial standard those times was fixed point Texas Instruments TMS320Cxx family, probably also NEC. Float DSP's was never popular from many reasons. Motorola with DSP56k was relatively late on DSP market - 56k was mostly popular in audio applications... Atari probably selected 56k due audio, perhaps also this can be part combined deal with 68030. Apple selection of AT&T was probably price driven (similarly to Commodore). Having 3210 on Amiga board means that for 20$ you had float performance 20..100 higher than 68882. |
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12 May 2024, 21:28 | #4249 |
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12 May 2024, 21:58 | #4250 | |
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12 May 2024, 23:47 | #4251 | |
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This might be a special problem of the ZZ9000 (context switches? not really on the same bus?) or due to it not being widespread to put it mildly. And not only this: there IS actually software using the DSP running on the reimplemented (A)A3000+ despite only a handful exist. Last edited by Gorf; 13 May 2024 at 00:27. |
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12 May 2024, 23:54 | #4252 | |
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You would need to use a 040 @25MHz or @33MHz - which would be factor 5-10 more expensive than 14MHz 020 and DSP combo. And as for the importance of porting games: If you are reliant on ports and not longer the primary target, your grave as a platform is already dug out. Luckily in these years (90-92) the Amiga finally got mostly rid of cheap ST ports and was getting more and more exclusive titles or at least titles that were developed for the Amiga first and ported to other platforms later. But sadly AGA machines could not hold on to this trend for the reasons discussed in this thread. Last edited by Gorf; 13 May 2024 at 00:51. |
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13 May 2024, 00:25 | #4253 | ||
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Announcing an A500 CD upgrade that early might have been also a mistake that did hurt the CDTV sales quite a bit. Why buy a CDTV if you have already a A500? Or why not buy a A500 now and get the A570 later to have the best of both worlds? Was it really worth to appear as a nice company that cares about its A500 customers in this case? It seems especially odd since the CDTV was not marketed as an Amiga at first - they even tried very hard to avoid the Amiga image in the first year and only resorted to that route after the initial campaign flopped. So why would you announce an A500 CD upgrade, if the CDTV was supposed to be a totally different animal? That C= still kept that early promise after the CDTV production was long canned and even the A500(plus) was gone, underlines my claim, that they must have been under some contractual pressure. Whatever it was, the plan did not really work out either: only around 20k units of the A570 were ever sold. (partly because you needed a A500+ with 1MB ChipRam to be really compatible with many CDTV titles) Quote:
Last edited by Gorf; 13 May 2024 at 04:28. |
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13 May 2024, 01:02 | #4254 | |
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Quickly after introducing DSP you can expect software using it especially if DSP is standard HW present in every machine (uncommon thing for 68881/68882 yet software was offered). Compare apples with apples - if ZZ9000 became standard HW present in every Amiga and it will cost 25$ then you will get software especially in 90's. It has prefect sense to write computationally intense code with DSP on mind - vendors usually offers set of libraries and highly optimized code - like inverse DCT 8x8 to decode jpeg so everyone, every application can quickly become beneficial from such things. Nowadays try convince people to write code Zynq ARM where your target is probably few users (how many ZZ9000 was sold - 10? 100?). Compare apples with apples. Having DSP in Amiga will be highly beneficial even if performance rarely hit half of peak- still this will be like 100 times faster than 68882. |
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13 May 2024, 02:08 | #4255 |
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13 May 2024, 02:30 | #4256 | |
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One of those paid mainstream game studios can reverse engineer PC Doom for SNES port and still using an Amiga as a dev workstation for the SNES. SuperFX was co-designed from ex-Amiga 3D game developers in the UK! The difference is Nintendo supported game developers with actions, not just words. Nintendo is 100 percent focused on its target market. After removing the original Los Gatos Amiga team, Commodore was a master of none. Non-mainstream Amiga era needed PC's Doom source code in 1997. It's well known that Psygnosis wanted an upgraded CD32 with minimal cost increase before selling themselves to Sony's PS1. Intel has a mastery over CPU that is attached to clone PC platform with an industry leading distribution channels. SSE is SIMD extension that is supported megacorps like Intel and MS (e.g. DirectX6.0 geometry pipeline). PC world did both X86 translation in hardware acceleration and SIMD extensions. -------- Emu68 has quad-core(four threads) soft 68K extensions beyond increasing the single 68K thread. Emu68 exposes quad-core ARM CPUs for quad-core 68K. It needs new software for quad-core 68K usage. New features will need new or modified software. Last edited by hammer; 13 May 2024 at 02:47. |
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13 May 2024, 02:49 | #4257 | |
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AGA's HAM8 has its lossy color edge problem and the same 8 bit-planes load on stock A1200's Chip RAM. Last edited by hammer; 13 May 2024 at 07:22. |
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13 May 2024, 02:59 | #4258 | |
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Instead of a thread about a few opinions on what could be improved on A1200 release, its going around in circles with huge datasets of PC info that noone cares for and unhelpful replies of "PC envy" that I don't think any Amiga owner had in '92 |
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13 May 2024, 04:58 | #4259 |
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Sure, this thread is incredibly silly, repetitive, full of overblown drama, and all the possible logical fallacies you can imagine. But it's also the forum's equivalent of a soap opera, a guilty pleasure I undeniably enjoy checking on now and then (and put some more wood on the fire too, of course).
So, leave us alone, haters, and go back to you other perfectly reasonable and sensible threads |
13 May 2024, 06:05 | #4260 |
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