Turrican 2 MS-DOS AGA conversion

[Muzza]

I've had reports that the intro music plays wrong on 68060's in the WHDLoad version only ('sometimes faster and slower'). Floppy version plays fine.
The weird thing is that the code is the same. The only difference is that on WHDLoad I use it's TAG system to detect if the processor is a 68020+ and whether it is PAL/NTSC. This appears to be working correctly though.

With the previously discussed music problems on 68040's+ I could reproduce it in WinUAE using chipset_hacks=0x8, and made the relevant fixes. This newly reported problem I cannot reproduce in WinUAE.

Running WHDLoad with NOCACHE apparently fixes it. I'm reluctant to enable that globally (I don't want any chance of downgrading other systems). Just wondered if anyone has any ideas? Or if anyone else can confirm/deny the music problem in the WHDLoad version on a 68060?

[dlfrsilver]

Originally Posted by Muzza

Which version are you playing and with what controller? I'm not seeing a problem myself.

Hi, the latest, i have a 2 buttons controller.

[Muzza]

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

Hi, the latest, i have a 2 buttons controller.

So you hold down the main fire button and nothing happens at all?

[dlfrsilver]

Originally Posted by Muzza

So you hold down the main fire button and nothing happens at all?

exactly. The 360° ray never appears ! the main sprite stay idle :/

[Muzza]

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

exactly. The 360° ray never appears ! the main sprite stay idle :/

If you go into the controls menu, the Input Type at the top should say 'Auto - Detected 1/2 Button Joystick'. Can you check this?

All I can think is that it is detecting your controller as a CD32 pad instead.

Otherwise, it is very strange. I've not had other bug reports about this, which I'd imagine I would have given how important it is. Another possibility is that your controller button is faulty and when you hold it down, it occasionally registers as being up. I've had an old joystick start to do that.

[dlfrsilver]

Originally Posted by Muzza

If you go into the controls menu, the Input Type at the top should say 'Auto - Detected 1/2 Button Joystick'. Can you check this?

All I can think is that it is detecting your controller as a CD32 pad instead.

Otherwise, it is very strange. I've not had other bug reports about this, which I'd imagine I would have given how important it is. Another possibility is that your controller button is faulty and when you hold it down, it occasionally registers as being up. I've had an old joystick start to do that.

It does. 'Auto - Detected 1/2 Button Joystick' is what i see.

[Torti-the-Smurf]

HAHA, i still can remember when Julian Eggebrecht called the PC version UGLY (and they had nothing to do with it)

If you could swap the Main Sprite for the Factor 5 version;
it would at least look a bit better than the current state.

Anyway, I love Turri

Keep up the great work

[RealNC]

Very impressive work! Are you trying to match the DOS gameplay as well, or are you basing this on the Amiga version's gameplay? A few things in the DOS version that don't exist in this remake:

You're not supposed to be able to exit from the spikeball state unless you're touching the ground.

The invulnerability shield timer is paused if you're in spikeball form.

In the first stage, you can get past the wind section by repeatedly jumping and then pressing down+right.

There is only 1 frame of input lag in DOS. This remake has 4 frames of input lag. It feels very "floaty" and delayed.

[Muzza]

Originally Posted by RealNC

Very impressive work! Are you trying to match the DOS gameplay as well, or are you basing this on the Amiga version's gameplay? A few things in the DOS version that don't exist in this remake:

You're not supposed to be able to exit from the spikeball state unless you're touching the ground.

The invulnerability shield timer is paused if you're in spikeball form.

In the first stage, you can get past the wind section by repeatedly jumping and then pressing down+right.

There is only 1 frame of input lag in DOS. This remake has 4 frames of input lag. It feels very "floaty" and delayed.

I'm trying to make it close, but allowing for small bug fixes or improvements. The 'cheat' to get past the wind section was (I assume) unintentional in the original.

I had a look at the lag issue. There is certainly one oversight that leads to an one to two frames of latency, which I will fix for the next update. I'm not sure how you could get 4 frames of latency though. Are you running in an emulator? That will generally add latency, although WinUAE has some special modes to reduce or eliminate it.

[VincentGR]

Originally Posted by Muzza

WinUAE has some special modes to reduce or eliminate it.

Indeed, but you can't do anything about LCD displays and USB devices.

[RealNC]

Originally Posted by Muzza

I had a look at the lag issue. There is certainly one oversight that leads to an one to two frames of latency, which I will fix for the next update. I'm not sure how you could get 4 frames of latency though. Are you running in an emulator?

Yes, I use an emulator (UAE core in RetroArch.) But I use frame stepping to check how many frames the game needs to react to input.

Pause the emulator. Then press up for jump (keep it pressed.) Then press your emulator's "frame advance" key, which emulates just one frame and then pauses again. You need to do frame advance 5 times until the game reacts to the jump button (so that means there's 4 frames of lag.) The original Amiga version reacts on the third frame or second frame (so 2 or 1 frames of lag, it depends on where you are in the game. When standing in water in the first level, there's less lag.)

The DOS version has the least lag. It's always only 1 frame of lag.

[Muzza]

Originally Posted by RealNC

Yes, I use an emulator (UAE core in RetroArch.) But I use frame stepping to check how many frames the game needs to react to input.

Pause the emulator. Then press up for jump (keep it pressed.) Then press your emulator's "frame advance" key, which emulates just one frame and then pauses again. You need to do frame advance 5 times until the game reacts to the jump button (so that means there's 4 frames of lag.) The original Amiga version reacts on the third frame or second frame (so 2 or 1 frames of lag, it depends on where you are in the game. When standing in water in the first level, there's less lag.)

The DOS version has the least lag. It's always only 1 frame of lag.

The question is, does the single step really hide the emulation latency?
Anyway, I've tried it before and after the fix I made, and the latency has improved by 2 frames now, so it should be the same as the original Amiga Turrican 2. Thanks for reporting it, it was an important fix.

[RealNC]

Originally Posted by Muzza

The question is, does the single step really hide the emulation latency?

Probably not, but it still allows latency comparisons between games If there's emulation lag, it's gonna be the same for all games, so the delta should be accurate. As was the case here, apparently.

Anyway, I've tried it before and after the fix I made, and the latency has improved by 2 frames now, so it should be the same as the original Amiga Turrican 2. Thanks for reporting it, it was an important fix.

Awesome!

[jotd]

I use to record input and analyse frame by frame for my arcade conversions, sometimes using image tools. Generic method that works with all emulators that can save video.

Of course when pressing a button it's maybe not that relevant because you have to know when you pressed it.

[Muzza]

Originally Posted by RealNC

You're not supposed to be able to exit from the spikeball state unless you're touching the ground.

The invulnerability shield timer is paused if you're in spikeball form.

I've fixed these too. The shield timer wasn't paused, it just didn't draw when in spikeball mode - because you're invulnerable anyway.

[Muzza]

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

It does. 'Auto - Detected 1/2 Button Joystick' is what i see.

I've added something that might help. It isn't really a fix (as I don't know what the problem is), but an alternate control mode that you can set in the menu.
For 2 button joysticks you can set Fire 1 to shoot, and Fire 2 to the beam weapon (confusingly called lightning in the manual). This makes it a bit closer to the CD32 controls. It means you don't need auto-fire (just hold down fire 1), and its quicker to change between the two weapons. The special weapons still require using the space bar in this control mode.

[RealNC]

Originally Posted by Muzza

I've fixed these too. The shield timer wasn't paused, it just didn't draw when in spikeball mode - because you're invulnerable anyway.

I meant that it should be paused if you're trying to match the DOS version. In the OCS version, the shield is not paused. So it can expire while in the ball state. In DOS, the timer is paused and it will never expire while being a ball. Once you get out of the ball state, the shield countdown timer resumes.


If you're not trying to match the DOS version, then the current behavior is correct (other than the shield not being visible.)

[Muzza]

v11 Build available on DropBox here.

This is likely to be the last update for a while, unless any serious bugs are reported.

-Fixed the collision of bouncing spikes in World 2 (the small ones were damaging the player from a distance, making it more difficult)
-Input latency improved.
-Can longer exit Gyroscope mode in mid-air.-Shield when in Gyroscope mode fixed.
-New control mode for 2 button joysticks (where 2nd fire is the 360 lightning weapon)
-Fixes to redefined controls.
-Memory leak fix.
-Added a 'NoCache' icon for running in WHDLoad (fixes music in 060's)

[DanyPPC]

Originally Posted by Muzza

-New control mode for 2 button joysticks (where 2nd fire is the 360 lightning weapon)

I would have left the 2 button control like the original ECS version of Turrican 2. It's more intuitive.

[Muzza]

Originally Posted by DanyPPC

I would have left the 2 button control like the original ECS version of Turrican 2. It's more intuitive.

That is the default, if you don't select the 2 Button mode in the controls menu. Disagree that its more intuitive though - I hated having to switch auto-fire on and off to use the different weapons.