Do you own a 2 button gamepad or joystick?

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by meynaf

BUT
It it REQUIRES 2 button, the 1 button user is even more fucked and just can't play !

First, I did not suggest "completely block them", there's always the keyboard option. EVERYONE can play the game!

But here is where the "nonsense mentality" comes: anyone can get a 2 button joystick. Absolutely anyone. What is stopping anyone? What is teh logical reason not to own a 2 button pad, a 2 button controller, to modify your Competition Pro to have 2 independent buttons, to buy a kit from witchmasta, a sega megadrive pad, a master system pad.... see how many options there are?

My take is that anyone refuses to get a 2 button controller, it's their own choice, and they should be responsible for it, not game makers. For example, I told hoinx of some options, I even offered to send him one next time I find one, but he ignored that part nad found some more excuses not to own one

Originally Posted by honx

amibay or here is mostly uk i assume. so shipping to austria would quite likely double the costs.

(my offer still stand honx, I don't know why you chose to ignore it, I was serious)
Again, it's the person who doesn't own one at fault, not the game creator. It is incredibly easy to get a two button controller. If you don't have one is because you don't want to.

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by Akira

First, I did not suggest "completely block them", there's always the keyboard option. EVERYONE can play the game!

Then there is no problem at all

Originally Posted by Akira

But here is where the "nonsense mentality" comes: anyone can get a 2 button joystick. Absolutely anyone. What is stopping anyone? What is teh logical reason not to own a 2 button pad, a 2 button controller, to modify your Competition Pro to have 2 independent buttons, to buy a kit from witchmasta, a sega megadrive pad, a master system pad.... see how many options there are?

My take is that anyone refuses to get a 2 button controller, it's their own choice, and they should be responsible for it, not game makers. For example, I told hoinx of some options, I even offered to send him one next time I find one, but he ignored that part nad found some more excuses not to own one

Available controllers, 1 or 2 buttons, are all old and scarce. Who wants to pay dearly for these things that may or may not work, and can break after only a few games ?

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by meynaf

Available controllers, 1 or 2 buttons, are all old and scarce. Who wants to pay dearly for these things that may or may not work, and can break after only a few games ?

No, really, this has to stop.

Can I direct everyone reading this thread to this?
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=85056

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by Akira

No, really, this has to stop.

Can I direct everyone reading this thread to this?
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=85056

Nice work, but still overpriced old things. A single guy doing what he can and who now has a huge list of waiting customers to satisfy. Will likely end up in shortage of these pads he mods. Not convinced, sorry.

[Sinphaltimus]

Question for those who know, please answer. The standard 1 button controller is ANALOG from what I've read. Just switched connections for each direction and fire to ground. But in order to do 2 button you have to go digital? Is this correct? I ask because I saw that controller link Akira shared a moment ago and there are chips involved. I couldn't help wondering why. I never opened up my CD32 controller to see if there are chips in there as well, I assumed fully analog, am I mistaken with that assumption?

[coder76]

The Sega Megadrive/Genesis controllers work also on Amiga and are pretty cheap. You get 2 buttons on both to work, but soldering is required to get third button to work. Haven't tested myself, but this is what I read on forums. I'm seeing new Genesis controllers being sold for e.g. 10 €.

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by meynaf

but still overpriced old things

What?
OK man I give up.
This is why Amiga doesn't get nice things.

Originally Posted by Sinphaltimus

The standard 1 button controller is ANALOG from what I've read

You're confused.
They are both digital. Just because "there are components" doesn't mean it's digital and because there aren't it's analog.
It's still on/off, 1/0 (digital).
The controller I linked to needs extra stuff to allow the CD32 pad to let all those buttons work, there aren't enough pins in there to address each button independently.
The standard port has however ENOUGH pins to address directly up to 3 fire buttons without any need of logic or multiplexing. A 2 or 3 button Amiga controller is possible just by wiring, no extra components needed (like what coder76 just said: a 3 button Sega Genesis controller can send all 3 A,B and C buttons to the Amiga if you modify it, and work if the Amiga software allows it)

(ANALOG controllers are those where the input allows for more than just a on/off value, proportional controllers, like Playstation thumbsticks or mice)

[kgc210]

Originally Posted by Akira

No, really, this has to stop.

Can I direct everyone reading this thread to this?
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=85056

I had already posted about the KTRL CD32 on post 11.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Nice work, but still overpriced old things. A single guy doing what he can and who now has a huge list of waiting customers to satisfy. Will likely end up in shortage of these pads he mods. Not convinced, sorry.

The KTRL CD32 is not an "overpriced old thing" he is taking a readyily available brand new USB "SNES" style controller that is easyily found on ebay, Amazon etc etc and putting in a brand new circuit board that emulates the CD32 shiftregister / pad.

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by Akira

What?
OK man I give up.
This is why Amiga doesn't get nice things.

Amiga doesn't get nice things because it is in the wrong hands, not for any other reason, especially not anything joystick related.

Originally Posted by kgc210

The KTRL CD32 is not an "overpriced old thing" he is taking a readyily available brand new USB "SNES" style controller that is easyily found on ebay, Amazon etc etc and putting in a brand new circuit board that emulates the CD32 shiftregister / pad.

Brand new, really ? SNES/Megadrive pads are no longer produced, are they ?

[ajk]

Yes, they are. Not by Nintendo or Sega of course but as reproductions. DealExtreme had them for something like $2 each already years ago, I think I bought a pack of 10

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by ajk

Yes, they are. Not by Nintendo or Sega of course but as reproductions. DealExtreme had them for something like $2 each already years ago, I think I bought a pack of 10

Didn't know that. Of course the situation is different when we don't have to rely on old stocks.

[coder76]

But one should be a bit careful though, these new cheap editions of e.g. Genesis controllers can also be very poor in quality. Not corresponding to original quality, and size is different. Look at reviews before buying anything. And the Megadrive/Genesis controllers aren't 100% compatible with Amiga joystick ports in an unmodified form, but as far as I know, nobody has managed to blow their CIA chips up by using them.

Originally Posted by coder76

The Sega Megadrive/Genesis controllers work also on Amiga and are pretty cheap. You get 2 buttons on both to work, but soldering is required to get third button to work.

I had to do some soldering just to get any button to work

The new $5 cheapy ones on ebay have an MCU in them that controls (multiplexes) all the lines. Just swapping wires around doesn't work anymore, you have to disconnect the whole wiring loom, cutout/bypass the MCU, and solder each lead directly to each pads/button tracks on the pcb.

That being said... Anyone know some good vertical Scrollers that use 2 button?

[Tigerskunk]

Originally Posted by Joe.

That being said... Anyone know some good vertical Scrollers that use 2 button?

I know of a new horizontal shooter that will use two buttons...

[AdvanceFollow]

Technically my Wico Command Control has 2 buttons, but there's a switch on the base to select which button is "active".
This is the original joystick that I have had since my first C64 so it isn't going anywhere

[alpine9000]

Surely if the most perfect game ever created *cough* Turrican 2 *cough* needs the keyboard, then two buttons or one buttons + keyboard is a perfectly acceptable solution ;-)

[Daedalus]

You can also use a simple adaptor to fully enable Megadrive pads on the Amiga and read all 4 buttons - though I don't know of any games that do. It also eliminates the (very remote) risk of damaging the Amiga. Worth noting though that the CIAs on the C64 are at risk from a standard MD pad - it's Paula that is used to read the pads on the Amiga (other than the first fire button).

[Daedalus]

Originally Posted by Sinphaltimus

Question for those who know, please answer. The standard 1 button controller is ANALOG from what I've read. Just switched connections for each direction and fire to ground. But in order to do 2 button you have to go digital? Is this correct? I ask because I saw that controller link Akira shared a moment ago and there are chips involved. I couldn't help wondering why. I never opened up my CD32 controller to see if there are chips in there as well, I assumed fully analog, am I mistaken with that assumption?

Hmmm, I'll try and further clear this up for you. There are some analogue I/O lines on the Amiga ports, but they're used in digital mode to read the CD32 and any controller (including mice) that have more than one button. The direction inputs and the first fire button / left mouse button are exclusively digital (even for mice), but aren't processed in any way - the on/off signal from the button or mouse sensor is sent directly to the pins. When you have more buttons than pins available, you need to use some other method, and both MD and CD32 pads use extra logic to do this. The MD pad uses one line to switch between two sets of inputs, reading each bank in turn as if it was a standard controller. The CD32 uses a serial protocol to stream the status of each button in through one pin. This is why both of these controllers (and pretty much any console controller from the '90s on) have extra chips inside them.

[mcgeezer]

I don't own a two button joystick/pad but I'm planning on getting one for better game development.

[Sinphaltimus]

You're confused.
They are both digital. Just because "there are components" doesn't mean it's digital and because there aren't it's analog.

Thanks for explaining. I use digital/analog to describe the device itself. There is no zero and one computations within the analog joystick or gamepad. It's simply mechanical switches. The entire device is analog. Not what it interfaces with. That's the digital part the computer itself.

I can take an analog joystick, connect it to a battery and some leds and use it to turn leds in and off by use of mechanical switches. It is not digital in any way. When you introduce microcontrollers and multiplexers it most certainly is a digital device. Yes of course analog also includes potentiometers and such. It's a distinction to be clear about what is inside. Mechanical parts only or micro chips plus mechanical parts. I doubt anyone would call there light switch in their home digital just because it's on and off or zeros and ones if you connect it to a computer. Not even the dimmer version. But a "smart switch" is almost certainly digital.

I'm sure you knew what I meant. 3 buttons or less can be analog, more than that must be digital. Got it.