looking for AmigaBasic Interpreter - Page 2

Doc Mindie · 16 March 2006, 10:32

Got this email from Microsoft......
-------------------------------
Dear *******,

Thank you for your e-mail concerning the licence status of AmigaBASIC.

Due to the nature of your enquiry, it has not been possible for me to answer your question. Therefore, I have taken this opportunity to escalate your query to my Head Office for assistance.

Please be assured that once I have received a response, I will relay the relevant information to you.

Thank you for getting in touch.

Kind Regards,

Geetha Shivakumar
Customer Service Professional
Microsoft Customer Services
-------------------------

I sent back an email telling that AmigaBASIC went out of production (as far as the Amiga community is concerned) when Commodore decided to put bundle ARexx as the programming language. So, I got another email about "different localized versions for the UK and the America" which didn't make sense to me, as the only local thing with the amiga, was the hardcopy manuals, as far as I was could remember. So I said that to them to, and gave them the years of which AmigaBASIC was bundled.... ca 1985-1990, wasn't it?

Anyroads. I hope their next email will be a gesture from the BBW (Big Bad Wolf) of computers towards a minority of people, who happen to enjoy dabbling with "the computers of yesterday"

Sorry if all this is totally offtopic and such..... but..... I figured, if I don't try to reach MicroSoft, if nothing else, get the status of the license from them (whether it would be "safe" to hang on dark streetcorners, dressed up in long coats and deal it to innocent passersby, for example) at least we could have some fun with it afterwards

Doc Mindie · 17 March 2006, 19:14

So.... MicroSoft has finally made a decision about their on eand only Amiga product ever......
-----
Thank you for your e-mail.

Further to your query raised on 15 March 2006 on the licence status of AmigaBASIC, my manager has advised as follows:

At the end of the day, this will not be possible. The licensing terms that applied to the product on its initial release would still be applicable. The fact that the product has been discontinued would not alter this and we would not be able to start issuing the licences again for a product that has been obsolete for this length of time.

In addition to this, my manager has checked our legal website below and can advise that although it is possible to apply for a license to use certain Microsoft® developed technologies, this product is not one of them.

http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/ip/

As such, we can really only apologise if this comes as a disappointment but we can not provide licenses to use this software now.

Thank you for your patience and understanding.

Kind Regards,

Geetha Shivakumar
Customer Service Professional
Microsoft Customer Services

billy · 18 March 2006, 04:08

@ Doc.

Thanks for the effort regarding Micro$oft and Amiga BASIC.

That answer sounds like something I would typically expect from any large monopoly. If they really looked into it, which is questionable, it probably cost the company a couple of bucks in labor. Of course that doesn't help the "department's bottom line", thus the boiler-plate response.

I'll bet the only way to get beyond the "it's gone and too bad" response, would be to find a branch manager and hand them a LARGE check just to get their people to really look into selling off or "donating" (for a large sum of money) the obsolete code.

... of course Mr. Bill has always been a philanthropist - from *30* years ago http://www.digibarn.com/collections/...tesletter.html

or the more recent http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060316/...osoft_gates_dc

BippyM · 18 March 2006, 13:46

To be honest I thought Micrososft programmed the basic for commodore.. which means commodore must have held the copyright!

Microsoft is such a lame-o company!

Chuckles · 18 March 2006, 16:20

Actually, the copyright would remain with Microsoft unless they specifically sold it. Instead they sold the rights to license and distribute the versions of Basic they wrote to the companies that needed them, like Commodore and Apple. I seem to recall that those rights were set to expire at some point, and after that even those companies would have to work out a new agreement with Microsoft to continue distributing them. I vaguely remember reading once that Apple ran into that issue with respect to Applesoft, but that they did work something out.

Doc Mindie · 19 March 2006, 00:33

Well.... at least, if nothing else, it's safe to assume that AmigaBASIC is considered WAREZ still, and is not to be distributed through legal channels.

At least I managed to clear THAT up, however, I think it's really cheap of MicroSoft to deny people the "proper retro feeling" by distibuting such and ancint and outdated thing.

whiteb · 20 March 2006, 04:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doc Mindie

At least I managed to clear THAT up, however, I think it's really cheap of MicroSoft to deny people the "proper retro feeling" by distibuting such and ancint and outdated thing.

Yeah, little billie must think he is giving up the source code to XP or something

billy · 20 March 2006, 22:33

Tis true... everything I've read till now shows that M$ merely licensed their work to Commodore. This is true as well with MS-DOS 3.0 for the Commodore Clone products as well.

My question to Billiam is whether or not I need a new license for my original MS-DOS 3.0 diskettes. I mean Commodore has been gone for years. Isn't this an opportunity for them to scam a few more bucks outta people who paid up 10-15 years ago??

Marcuz · 13 December 2006, 17:54

i have the original extras disk that came with my workbench 1.3, and also i found today this magazine disk from 1989 with the main executable, some compiled sample and a couple of scripts. all of them works fine with winuae with factory 1.3 settings, used on the booted magazine disk.
so, not knowing that amigabasic was 1.3/68000 only, i copyed the whole stuff on ClassicWB (scalos, wb 3.0 or 3.1, aga etc) of course as i was told later by Jope and the guys on IRC, they didn't work: the program started and halted on "file not found", the same with booting the disk with >68000, kickstart 3.0.
all this i said for peace of conscience

however then i check and download ACE from Aminet, i install it correctly on ClassicWB, rename the various scripts with the suffix ".b" so to make them be understanded by ACE, test them... no one of them works, all get a shit load of errors, "undefined variables" etc...
either it isn't programmed to work this way, or i'm doing something wrong. boh?

DDNI · 13 December 2006, 18:44

I have Amiga GFA basic interpreter Version 3.5 with manual for sale if anyone wants it.....

andreas · 13 December 2006, 21:10

@marco
Ah, the (in)famous "file not found" error.

Yes, that's the problem why AmigaBasic programs are so hard to get running properly on higher-end Amigas.

But there *IS* a way out!

However, you will have to rewrite your BASIC programs, as the syntax is a bit different. Until WB 1.2 (or even 1.1), they shipped another (superior!!!) BASIC interpreter called ABasiC by MetaComCo.

This company is definitely DEAD, and unlike Commodore, the license has *not* been passed to another licensee. So there should not be any problem in distributing this!

about ACE

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doc Mindie

Phil..... instead of AmigaBasic... maybe you should try this instead?

http://www.idiom.com/free-compilers/TOOL/BASIC-6.html

ACE Basic, mostly the same as AmigaBasic, only it's free and on the AmiNET

Yes on Aminet, but please not that old crud!

I regularly double-check this kind of third-party sites to not get linked to software which has been obsolete for long!

Check this: (clicky)

Yet I have no idea whether library calls (Move&(), Text&()) are now supported!

Marcuz · 13 December 2006, 21:28

andreas, thanks for the heads up, tomorrow afternoon i'll check it.
with the amigabasic that shipped with WB1.3 the main problem to me was that there was no manual. how was supposed to know what a programming language was a kiddo that had his first computer for Xmas? i remember to have tryed what looked as a crucial part of the magic, as i recalled it, the compilation of a script, only to ruin some program on my original Extras disk. hehe... actually it was in school, some time before, in 1987 that they introduced us to basic, to draw concentric circles on black and green olivetti' screens on pcs, but, ehm, i was not a brillant student...

thor · 13 December 2006, 21:32

Maybe try the AC-Basic Compiler by AbSoft which should compile Amiga Basic programs. Perhaps the resulting program runs under 2.0+. Or try HiSoft Basic, but I don't know how Amiga Basic compatible it is. As for the manual for Amiga Basic, I got one with my A500.

pjhutch · 13 December 2006, 23:39

I used Hisoft Basic and then moved to Blitz Basic which is much much better than the ones mentioned. You can d/l Blitz Basic from:

http://www.blitz-2000.co.uk/

Its the AmiBlitz Support suite you are after.

Marcuz · 14 December 2006, 01:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by thor

As for the manual for Amiga Basic, I got one with my A500.

lucky you!

i didn't with mine. it was 1990 (or 89?) and then it could have been useful; howevertomorrow i'll check the programs you guys say. thanks

andreas · 14 December 2006, 02:12

@thor same here. I too have a manual lying around somewhere...

@marco EVEN better...
now look at *THAT*!!! Didn't you just complain about non-runnable programs on higher Amigas?

(clicky)

Marcuz · 14 December 2006, 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by andreas

@marco EVEN better...
now look at *THAT*!!! Didn't you just complain about non-runnable programs on higher Amigas?

(clicky)

cool, i skipped this one patch, i'll try to make it work

andreas · 16 December 2006, 01:02

Actually no patch, but just a text file with lots of useful infos ...

Another recent note to ACE:
DIM SHARED is *not* supported!

So this will require a greater rewrite of things if you wish to port AmigaBasic to ACE. Also, I understand why there is no way to write a script that fixes this, as you will have to replace the DIM SHARED by SHARED statements in each subroutine that uses it (SUB ... STATIC). DIM SHARED would populate the variables for ALL subroutines. That might be considered "criminal," but the point is that it's a very good way for reading in external sequential data files into an array *ONCE*, dimension the array as SHARED, and then have the unmodified (!) data array known to each subroutine.

Fair enough! But you can't have it all, can you ...

RetroMan · 16 December 2006, 18:01

Btw. PureBasic (Amiga Version) got OpenSource today

-> http://www.purebasic.com/download.php3

16 December 2006, 22:29

I previously have pointed out the fact that most of the Workbench disks were missing from Amiga Forever, however no one seemed to believe me.

Maybe now they will.

removed attack on another member - minuous you really need to get a grip and stop this pathetic behaviour. Kind Regards BippyM

16 December 2006, 01:02	#38
andreas Zone Friend Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Germany Age: 50 Posts: 5,857	Actually no patch, but just a text file with lots of useful infos ... Another recent note to ACE: *DIM SHARED is not* supported!** So this will require a greater rewrite of things if you wish to port AmigaBasic to ACE. Also, I understand why there is no way to write a script that fixes this, as you will have to replace the DIM SHARED by SHARED statements in each subroutine that uses it (SUB ... STATIC). DIM SHARED would populate the variables for ALL subroutines. That might be considered "criminal," but the point is that it's a very good way for reading in external sequential data files into an array ONCE, dimension the array as SHARED, and then have the unmodified (!) data array known to each subroutine. Fair enough! But you can't have it all, can you ... Last edited by andreas; 16 December 2006 at 01:14.

16 December 2006, 22:29	#40
fortrax Posts: n/a	I previously have pointed out the fact that most of the Workbench disks were missing from Amiga Forever, however no one seemed to believe me. Maybe now they will. removed attack on another member - minuous you really need to get a grip and stop this pathetic behaviour. Kind Regards BippyM Last edited by BippyM; 17 December 2006 at 21:12.

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16 March 2006, 10:32	#21
Doc Mindie In deep Trouble Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Manchester, Made in Norway Age: 51 Posts: 841	Got this email from Microsoft...... ------------------------------- Dear *******, Thank you for your e-mail concerning the licence status of AmigaBASIC. Due to the nature of your enquiry, it has not been possible for me to answer your question. Therefore, I have taken this opportunity to escalate your query to my Head Office for assistance. Please be assured that once I have received a response, I will relay the relevant information to you. Thank you for getting in touch. Kind Regards, Geetha Shivakumar Customer Service Professional Microsoft Customer Services ------------------------- I sent back an email telling that AmigaBASIC went out of production (as far as the Amiga community is concerned) when Commodore decided to put bundle ARexx as the programming language. So, I got another email about "different localized versions for the UK and the America" which didn't make sense to me, as the only local thing with the amiga, was the hardcopy manuals, as far as I was could remember. So I said that to them to, and gave them the years of which AmigaBASIC was bundled.... ca 1985-1990, wasn't it? Anyroads. I hope their next email will be a gesture from the BBW (Big Bad Wolf) of computers towards a minority of people, who happen to enjoy dabbling with "the computers of yesterday" Sorry if all this is totally offtopic and such..... but..... I figured, if I don't try to reach MicroSoft, if nothing else, get the status of the license from them (whether it would be "safe" to hang on dark streetcorners, dressed up in long coats and deal it to innocent passersby, for example) at least we could have some fun with it afterwards

17 March 2006, 19:14	#22
Doc Mindie In deep Trouble Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Manchester, Made in Norway Age: 51 Posts: 841	So.... MicroSoft has finally made a decision about their on eand only Amiga product ever...... ----- Thank you for your e-mail. Further to your query raised on 15 March 2006 on the licence status of AmigaBASIC, my manager has advised as follows: At the end of the day, this will not be possible. The licensing terms that applied to the product on its initial release would still be applicable. The fact that the product has been discontinued would not alter this and we would not be able to start issuing the licences again for a product that has been obsolete for this length of time. In addition to this, my manager has checked our legal website below and can advise that although it is possible to apply for a license to use certain Microsoft® developed technologies, this product is not one of them. http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/ip/ As such, we can really only apologise if this comes as a disappointment but we can not provide licenses to use this software now. Thank you for your patience and understanding. Kind Regards, Geetha Shivakumar Customer Service Professional Microsoft Customer Services

18 March 2006, 04:08	#23
billy Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: US / A Age: 49 Posts: 134	@ Doc. Thanks for the effort regarding Micro$oft and Amiga BASIC. That answer sounds like something I would typically expect from any large monopoly. If they really looked into it, which is questionable, it probably cost the company a couple of bucks in labor. Of course that doesn't help the "department's bottom line", thus the boiler-plate response. I'll bet the only way to get beyond the "it's gone and too bad" response, would be to find a branch manager and hand them a LARGE check just to get their people to really look into selling off or "donating" (for a large sum of money) the obsolete code. ... of course Mr. Bill has always been a philanthropist - from 30 years ago http://www.digibarn.com/collections/...tesletter.html or the more recent http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060316/...osoft_gates_dc

18 March 2006, 13:46	#24
BippyM Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Derby, UK Age: 48 Posts: 9,355	To be honest I thought Micrososft programmed the basic for commodore.. which means commodore must have held the copyright! Microsoft is such a lame-o company!

18 March 2006, 16:20	#25
Chuckles The Ancient One Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Kansas City/USA Age: 69 Posts: 685	Actually, the copyright would remain with Microsoft unless they specifically sold it. Instead they sold the rights to license and distribute the versions of Basic they wrote to the companies that needed them, like Commodore and Apple. I seem to recall that those rights were set to expire at some point, and after that even those companies would have to work out a new agreement with Microsoft to continue distributing them. I vaguely remember reading once that Apple ran into that issue with respect to Applesoft, but that they did work something out.

19 March 2006, 00:33	#26
Doc Mindie In deep Trouble Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Manchester, Made in Norway Age: 51 Posts: 841	Well.... at least, if nothing else, it's safe to assume that AmigaBASIC is considered WAREZ still, and is not to be distributed through legal channels. At least I managed to clear THAT up, however, I think it's really cheap of MicroSoft to deny people the "proper retro feeling" by distibuting such and ancint and outdated thing.

20 March 2006, 22:33	#28
billy Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: US / A Age: 49 Posts: 134	Tis true... everything I've read till now shows that M$ merely licensed their work to Commodore. This is true as well with MS-DOS 3.0 for the Commodore Clone products as well. My question to Billiam is whether or not I need a new license for my original MS-DOS 3.0 diskettes. I mean Commodore has been gone for years. Isn't this an opportunity for them to scam a few more bucks outta people who paid up 10-15 years ago??

13 December 2006, 17:54	#29
Marcuz Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: . Age: 48 Posts: 5,562	i have the original extras disk that came with my workbench 1.3, and also i found today this magazine disk from 1989 with the main executable, some compiled sample and a couple of scripts. all of them works fine with winuae with factory 1.3 settings, used on the booted magazine disk. so, not knowing that amigabasic was 1.3/68000 only, i copyed the whole stuff on ClassicWB (scalos, wb 3.0 or 3.1, aga etc) of course as i was told later by Jope and the guys on IRC, they didn't work: the program started and halted on "file not found", the same with booting the disk with >68000, kickstart 3.0. all this i said for peace of conscience however then i check and download ACE from Aminet, i install it correctly on ClassicWB, rename the various scripts with the suffix ".b" so to make them be understanded by ACE, test them... no one of them works, all get a shit load of errors, "undefined variables" etc... either it isn't programmed to work this way, or i'm doing something wrong. boh?

13 December 2006, 18:44	#30
DDNI Targ Explorer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 5,433	I have Amiga GFA basic interpreter Version 3.5 with manual for sale if anyone wants it.....

13 December 2006, 21:28	#32
Marcuz Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: . Age: 48 Posts: 5,562	andreas, thanks for the heads up, tomorrow afternoon i'll check it. with the amigabasic that shipped with WB1.3 the main problem to me was that there was no manual. how was supposed to know what a programming language was a kiddo that had his first computer for Xmas? i remember to have tryed what looked as a crucial part of the magic, as i recalled it, the compilation of a script, only to ruin some program on my original Extras disk. hehe... actually it was in school, some time before, in 1987 that they introduced us to basic, to draw concentric circles on black and green olivetti' screens on pcs, but, ehm, i was not a brillant student...

13 December 2006, 21:32	#33
thor Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 899	Maybe try the AC-Basic Compiler by AbSoft which should compile Amiga Basic programs. Perhaps the resulting program runs under 2.0+. Or try HiSoft Basic, but I don't know how Amiga Basic compatible it is. As for the manual for Amiga Basic, I got one with my A500.

13 December 2006, 23:39	#34
pjhutch Peter Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Sowerby Bridge,UK Age: 57 Posts: 102	I used Hisoft Basic and then moved to Blitz Basic which is much much better than the ones mentioned. You can d/l Blitz Basic from: http://www.blitz-2000.co.uk/ Its the AmiBlitz Support suite you are after.

14 December 2006, 02:12	#36
andreas Zone Friend Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Germany Age: 50 Posts: 5,857	@thor same here. I too have a manual lying around somewhere... @marco EVEN better... now look at THAT!!! Didn't you just complain about non-runnable programs on higher Amigas? (clicky)

16 December 2006, 18:01	#39
RetroMan Registered User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Germany Age: 51 Posts: 3,704	Btw. PureBasic (Amiga Version) got OpenSource today -> http://www.purebasic.com/download.php3

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