Upgrading Apollo 4040 to 4060... - Page 2

Chain · 07 June 2009, 08:22

well, i have heatsing abour 7mm tall, without any blower. its hot, but still around 60 degrees so im not worried

bb_neo · 19 June 2009, 22:27

Ok, finally I got my 68060 to do the upgrade.

I changed the 040 ROM to a 060 one, installed the new voltage regulator (thanks to Chain) changed the 80Mhz xtal to a 50Mhz and... NOTHING. Black screen.

I decided to put back the 68040 to test the board.(I removed the VR and placed the 2 jumpers on the place were the bridges were, changed the quartz back to 80 Mhz BUT still get a black screen. The keyboard seems to respond (CAPS look). Trying to reboot with keyboard seems also to make the harde drive led react but no floppy seek sound and no boot. I changed the 2 jumpers from INT to EXT and installed my old A3640 board. It booted fine. So it is definitely the board

. Really I don't think what I did wrong ..maybe static electricity?
Anyone knows what else (chips) I can test/mesure? I am pretty sure all parts are working well (ocillator, processor, VR)

Here some pictures after soldering the pins for the VR
http://picasaweb.google.com/neor.bra...eat=directlink

alexh · 19 June 2009, 23:04

Did you change back to the old EPROM?

bb_neo · 19 June 2009, 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

Did you change back to the old EPROM?

Sorry forgot to mention it but yes I changed back to the old EPROM.

bb_neo · 23 June 2009, 14:44

I still try to understand why my board has stopped working after I tried to upgrade it from a 040 to 060 CPU. (Black screen)

A fast recap of what I did :

- Soldered/added some rows of CPU pins on my 4040 board for the 060 CPU.
- Made a 4 pins socket on the board to swap the xtals more easier
- Removed the two original bridges on the power-converter that where on pins 1-2 and 7-8 (see picture below)
- Soldered 14 pins on the power-converter place so that the 5V>3.3V converter fits on the board.
That's all I modified on the board.

Trying 060 settings:
changed the 040 ROM to the 060 ROM
changed the 040 CPU to a 060 CPU
added to PR 3.3V
put a 50Mhz xtal (new)
changed jumper on the board form 040 to 060
Result ->Black Screen

Changed back to original state: (040 settings)
put back 040 CPU
put back 040 ROM
removed the 3.3V PR and added jumpers on pins 1-2 and 7-8 like original
put back the 80 Mhz xtal (also tried a 60 Mhz)
changed jumper on the board form 060 to 040
Result ->Black Screen

What I can confirm:

The CPU 040 gets hot as normal.
The 3 Mach chips also get hot.
I powered the board without CPU and xtal and mesured the PR and got 3.3V output so it is doing its job correctly.
Now I have a doubt about the power-converter pins. Can someone who has the same board check the picture link below and mesure if pins 11-12 and 13-14 are bridged?
They are bridged when I mesured them but is that normal? All the others are not bridged.
thanks

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink

alexh · 23 June 2009, 16:03

Do you have a spare accelerator to test see if the CPU slot on your motherboard is at fault?

bb_neo · 23 June 2009, 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

Do you have a spare accelerator to test see if the CPU slot on your motherboard is at fault?

hi alexh

Yes I have an A3640 board and it works fine. Amiga boots no issues.

The problem comes from the A4040 board after I did the modifications. It worked like a dream before.

alexh · 23 June 2009, 17:47

The only thing I can think of is a short on the extra row of pins you added to the inside of the socket.

It is the only thing you didn't revert.

bb_neo · 23 June 2009, 21:22

Yes true but the board does not even work with its original 040 CPU. (pins untouched) The pins I added are exclusively for the 060. If there is a short (which I don't believe) then that doesn't prevent the 040 from running well I guess.

I m really pissed. I paid my "new" 060 CPU Rev 6 70€ and now the board isn't working ! I was so careful doing the modifications I can't believe that it doesn't work. There must be something to do.

I am not ready to send it to France (for repair), yet. No more money!

alexh, do you have the same board? I know Chain has one because he even overlocked it to 100Mhz. Do you know someone here in eab you trust, has excellent knowledge in electronics, has the same board to compare the mesures and of course has time and wishes to help me...

I could also sent my board by mail if needed.
thanks

alexh · 23 June 2009, 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by bb_neo

If there is a short (which I don't believe) then that doesn't prevent the 040 from running well I guess.

Not a good assumption. What if their is a bridge/short that is coupled to one of the 040 pins? Check all pins for shorts. Consider removing the upgrade temporarily?

Yes I have the same board. No I have no spare time.

bb_neo · 23 June 2009, 23:03

yeah I check all pins. There are no shorts. You can see it clear in the picture n° 5 (the back of the CPU socket )
http://picasaweb.google.com/neor.bra...eat=directlink

"Consider removing the upgrade temporarily?" Sorry I don't understand. What you mean?

alexh · 23 June 2009, 23:16

Undo the adding of new pins to the 680x0 socket. It doesn't look practical though.

Get your magnifying glass out, see if you have lifted any tracks when soldering. Buzz out all tracks which run close to recently soldered pins with a multi-meter.

bb_neo · 23 June 2009, 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

Undo the adding of new pins to the 680x0 socket. It doesn't look practical though.

Not practical at all. Soldering / desoldering these pins might damage/lift the soldering points.

It is a little to late for me to try something tonight. I will see if I can get another multimeter and check the track. Mine gave up the ghost.

alexh · 24 June 2009, 09:01

You're not having much luck are you? Multimeter's are pretty much bomb proof. Sure it doesn't just need a new battery?

bb_neo · 24 June 2009, 21:08

Yeah that's what I thought but it was impossible to open this multimeter. No screws at all.

I forced to open it and damaged it. That was a cheapy shity one.(15€) Will get a good one this time where it is possible to change the battery.

22 July 2009, 18:09

I converted my 4040 to a 4060 today

Installed the software (3 new libs)
Changed crystal to 50 MHz
Swapped the ROM to 060
Swapped processor
Added voltage regulator board
Changed jumper settings according to manual

I didn't have to solder anything to the socket as I already had the inner row
Didn't bother swapping the mach chips either, seems to work anyways.

Chain · 22 July 2009, 20:07

bb_neo: it looks more like some error in xtal socket than in cpu socket

Chain · 22 July 2009, 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by bb_neo

Can someone who has the same board check the picture link below and mesure if pins 11-12 and 13-14 are bridged?
They are bridged when I mesured them but is that normal? All the others are not bridged.
thanks

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink

pins 12 and 13 are ground, so they are shorted
pins 2&8 is cpu power (output of regulator) and pins 1&7 is power from psu (input for regulator)

they are shorted for 040
but for 060 regulator is inserted between pins 1&7 and 2&8

piemmeweb · 25 September 2009, 23:09

Hello, I got an APOLLO 3040 and want to upgrade it.

I have some questions:

1) About SIMMs: the 3040 mounts only 2 simms with low-profile sockets, for 2 x 32MB simms only. Can I have 4 simms for a total of 128MB if i desolder the two low-profile sockets and mount 4 standard simm sockets, like on the 4040?

2) About the CPU: I don't know what's CPU version I need; that's ok the XC68060RC50_01F43G or the MOTOROLA XC68060RC50A_01G65V ?

3) About the crystal: Need I to change the 80MHZ crystal with a 50MHZ version?

4) About the voltage regulator: my 3040 is the same as pictured at http://amiga.resource.cx/photos/apollo4060,1 (only 2 simms, of course!) but already have all jumpers mounted on the POWER CONVERTER inlay, need i to add the power converter however? what's about the schematic?

5) About the eprom: I already downloaded the 68060 bin file for the 27c010 eprom, need i to burn it directly or need to add some modification (eg. byte swap) before burn it?

6) About the software: what files and libs need I to install on my amiga 4000 before use the modified 3040?

Please help me

thanks

rkauer · 26 September 2009, 03:44

1) yes, but it will not fit inside an A3000 anymore;

2) any of them. Prefer the latest mask.

3) only with older masks of the 060 (XC units).

4) did you notice the solder pads between the CPU and the chips on the middle of the board? There you need to add a pin header and plug the voltage regulator, or you'll fry the CPU almost instantly.

5) burn it and compare with the binary. If not right, erase and do the byte-swap.

6) download the A1260 (any version!) from Installer's Heaven and ready to go you'll be.

23 June 2009, 14:44	#25
bb_neo Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Luxembourg Posts: 27	where is the issue!! I still try to understand why my board has stopped working after I tried to upgrade it from a 040 to 060 CPU. (Black screen) A fast recap of what I did : - Soldered/added some rows of CPU pins on my 4040 board for the 060 CPU. - Made a 4 pins socket on the board to swap the xtals more easier - Removed the two original bridges on the power-converter that where on pins 1-2 and 7-8 (see picture below) - Soldered 14 pins on the power-converter place so that the 5V>3.3V converter fits on the board. That's all I modified on the board. Trying 060 settings: changed the 040 ROM to the 060 ROM changed the 040 CPU to a 060 CPU added to PR 3.3V put a 50Mhz xtal (new) changed jumper on the board form 040 to 060 Result ->Black Screen Changed back to original state: (040 settings) put back 040 CPU put back 040 ROM removed the 3.3V PR and added jumpers on pins 1-2 and 7-8 like original put back the 80 Mhz xtal (also tried a 60 Mhz) changed jumper on the board form 060 to 040 Result ->Black Screen What I can confirm: The CPU 040 gets hot as normal. The 3 Mach chips also get hot. I powered the board without CPU and xtal and mesured the PR and got 3.3V output so it is doing its job correctly. Now I have a doubt about the power-converter pins. Can someone who has the same board check the picture link below and mesure if pins 11-12 and 13-14 are bridged? They are bridged when I mesured them but is that normal? All the others are not bridged. thanks http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink Last edited by bb_neo; 23 June 2009 at 15:09.

23 June 2009, 23:03	#31
bb_neo Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Luxembourg Posts: 27	yeah I check all pins. There are no shorts. You can see it clear in the picture n° 5 (the back of the CPU socket ) http://picasaweb.google.com/neor.bra...eat=directlink "Consider removing the upgrade temporarily?" Sorry I don't understand. What you mean? Last edited by bb_neo; 23 June 2009 at 23:08.

24 June 2009, 21:08	#35
bb_neo Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Luxembourg Posts: 27	Yeah that's what I thought but it was impossible to open this multimeter. No screws at all. I forced to open it and damaged it. That was a cheapy shity one.(15€) Will get a good one this time where it is possible to change the battery. Last edited by bb_neo; 24 June 2009 at 21:30.

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07 June 2009, 08:22	#21
Chain A-Collector, repairments Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Czech Rep. Age: 50 Posts: 1,536	well, i have heatsing abour 7mm tall, without any blower. its hot, but still around 60 degrees so im not worried

19 June 2009, 22:27	#22
bb_neo Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Luxembourg Posts: 27	Ok, finally I got my 68060 to do the upgrade. I changed the 040 ROM to a 060 one, installed the new voltage regulator (thanks to Chain) changed the 80Mhz xtal to a 50Mhz and... NOTHING. Black screen. I decided to put back the 68040 to test the board.(I removed the VR and placed the 2 jumpers on the place were the bridges were, changed the quartz back to 80 Mhz BUT still get a black screen. The keyboard seems to respond (CAPS look). Trying to reboot with keyboard seems also to make the harde drive led react but no floppy seek sound and no boot. I changed the 2 jumpers from INT to EXT and installed my old A3640 board. It booted fine. So it is definitely the board . Really I don't think what I did wrong ..maybe static electricity? Anyone knows what else (chips) I can test/mesure? I am pretty sure all parts are working well (ocillator, processor, VR) Here some pictures after soldering the pins for the VR http://picasaweb.google.com/neor.bra...eat=directlink

19 June 2009, 23:04	#23
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,467	Did you change back to the old EPROM?

23 June 2009, 16:03	#26
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,467	Do you have a spare accelerator to test see if the CPU slot on your motherboard is at fault?

23 June 2009, 17:47	#28
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,467	The only thing I can think of is a short on the extra row of pins you added to the inside of the socket. It is the only thing you didn't revert.

23 June 2009, 21:22	#29
bb_neo Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Luxembourg Posts: 27	Yes true but the board does not even work with its original 040 CPU. (pins untouched) The pins I added are exclusively for the 060. If there is a short (which I don't believe) then that doesn't prevent the 040 from running well I guess. I m really pissed. I paid my "new" 060 CPU Rev 6 70€ and now the board isn't working ! I was so careful doing the modifications I can't believe that it doesn't work. There must be something to do. I am not ready to send it to France (for repair), yet. No more money! alexh, do you have the same board? I know Chain has one because he even overlocked it to 100Mhz. Do you know someone here in eab you trust, has excellent knowledge in electronics, has the same board to compare the mesures and of course has time and wishes to help me... I could also sent my board by mail if needed. thanks

23 June 2009, 23:16	#32
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,467	Undo the adding of new pins to the 680x0 socket. It doesn't look practical though. Get your magnifying glass out, see if you have lifted any tracks when soldering. Buzz out all tracks which run close to recently soldered pins with a multi-meter.

24 June 2009, 09:01	#34
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,467	You're not having much luck are you? Multimeter's are pretty much bomb proof. Sure it doesn't just need a new battery?

22 July 2009, 18:09	#36
jostberg Posts: n/a	I converted my 4040 to a 4060 today Installed the software (3 new libs) Changed crystal to 50 MHz Swapped the ROM to 060 Swapped processor Added voltage regulator board Changed jumper settings according to manual I didn't have to solder anything to the socket as I already had the inner row Didn't bother swapping the mach chips either, seems to work anyways.

22 July 2009, 20:07	#37
Chain A-Collector, repairments Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Czech Rep. Age: 50 Posts: 1,536	bb_neo: it looks more like some error in xtal socket than in cpu socket

25 September 2009, 23:09	#39
piemmeweb Commodore Lover Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Italy Age: 48 Posts: 128	Hello, I got an APOLLO 3040 and want to upgrade it. I have some questions: 1) About SIMMs: the 3040 mounts only 2 simms with low-profile sockets, for 2 x 32MB simms only. Can I have 4 simms for a total of 128MB if i desolder the two low-profile sockets and mount 4 standard simm sockets, like on the 4040? 2) About the CPU: I don't know what's CPU version I need; that's ok the XC68060RC50_01F43G or the MOTOROLA XC68060RC50A_01G65V ? 3) About the crystal: Need I to change the 80MHZ crystal with a 50MHZ version? 4) About the voltage regulator: my 3040 is the same as pictured at http://amiga.resource.cx/photos/apollo4060,1 (only 2 simms, of course!) but already have all jumpers mounted on the POWER CONVERTER inlay, need i to add the power converter however? what's about the schematic? 5) About the eprom: I already downloaded the 68060 bin file for the 27c010 eprom, need i to burn it directly or need to add some modification (eg. byte swap) before burn it? 6) About the software: what files and libs need I to install on my amiga 4000 before use the modified 3040? Please help me thanks

26 September 2009, 03:44	#40
rkauer I hate potatos and shirts Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sao Leopoldo / Brazil Age: 58 Posts: 3,482	1) yes, but it will not fit inside an A3000 anymore; 2) any of them. Prefer the latest mask. 3) only with older masks of the 060 (XC units). 4) did you notice the solder pads between the CPU and the chips on the middle of the board? There you need to add a pin header and plug the voltage regulator, or you'll fry the CPU almost instantly. 5) burn it and compare with the binary. If not right, erase and do the byte-swap. 6) download the A1260 (any version!) from Installer's Heaven and ready to go you'll be.

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