High quality joystick

[Hewitson]

Originally Posted by Shatterhand

Nothing beats a Sanwa stick.

Except a Seimitsu

[sneckburger]

The Cyclone RX adaptor for the PSX controller uses one of the shoulder buttons as up.
Mine has to use the Old original PS1 controller as it doesn't seem to like the analogue stick ones.

Makes platform games a little easier as diagonal jump can be hit and miss on a pad.

[Photon]

I've done some tests today (I have a bad cold so I was getting drenched in sweat just from sitting at a table and using a screwdriver )

The Gap.

Sanwa and similar balltops are just not tight enough for general gameplay, and the gap can't be tightened, and a more rigid spring just makes them stiffer. The problem is the full travel of the microswitch. The only way to reduce this travel is to have microswitches with slightly slanted arms touching the stick and switch. See photo, notice the different shape.

Game type.

But it's also down to game type. I think you should select a joystick or gamepad per game type.

In Street Fighter games (I guess IK+, Mortal Kombat, and brawlers come closest on Amiga) where it's important that you hit diagonals without triggering the horizontal or vertical first, the gap helps, but I think an 8-way frame helps more. To make it possible to do faster moves, these joysticks are floppy and loose.

You can't tighten the gap.

If you attempt to tighten them, you will like me get stray triggers of the opposite microswitch when they flop back. (A stiffer spring should fix this, but it's just too stiff for comfort - but I think both gap and stiffness as problems disappear when you stand up and play, because you more force and your hand doesn't rest on it, it hovers and you can do slaps and claw grip etc.)

This gap makes platformers harder because even though you can hit the correct directions, the gap makes it impossible to stop on a dime or turn-jump, which is important, too. A gamepad is much better at that, but sometimes "up" is triggered by mistake. So you bind a button to up instead.

The gap is also bad for shooters and things like soccer, Speedball, racing games, etc because you can't navigate tightly. You can sort of use a gamepad but you want something ultra-tight like a Tac-II. (If only it was 100% reliable and had buttons that you could pepper and time shots accurately with!)

So from the tests today I see one of two options:

• you can make a tight enough general-purpose joystick with the microswitches-with-arms in the photo (but not with just microswitches)
• or have, say, 3 modded joysticks/gamepads handy and pick the one that's best or least bad for the game you want to play.

[Damion]

Sorry to resurrect (and additional apologies if a newer/more relevant thread exists) but I wanted to speak to this bit:

Originally Posted by Shatterhand

Buy a Sanwa stick, a couple of Sanwa Buttons, a wood box and build your own arcade stick.

Nothing beats a Sanwa stick.

I didn't have time to go too far down the rabbit hole or build something, so I grabbed one of these:

https://monsterjoysticks.com/8-16bit...luxe-joysticks

Along with the octagonal restrictor:

https://monsterjoysticks.com/sanwa-g...nal-restrictor

I'm far from an afficionado on this topic but I'm flippin' amazed, and have spent more time playing games over the last few days (mostly Reshoot and jotd's arcade ports) than I have in the last 6 months combined.

As a youth I felt like the Epyx sticks were good but not very long lived, and while the TAC 2 was comparatively indestructable I just never got along with it . Sadly, I feel like much of my childhood was marred by crappy joysticks.

As mentioned by Jope and Photon there's indeed a seemingly large "dead zone", though in practice I don't notice it and the stick feels awesome . (Naturally, some games may simply be better served with something like a KTRL or Playstation pad, or a shorter-throw/more responsive stick.)

The buttons are like hair triggers, ridiculously responsive IMO.

Though I have to admit I'm now curious to experiment with the Seimitsu equivalents

All I need now is a good replacement for the ball mice I'm still using :P

[Photon]

I put my Sanwa stick through its paces but ghost triggers of the opposite direction still happen occasionally. The thickness of the board didn't help with the ball top either. I put in a long Happ bathandle instead and that was what my build needed.

Recently came across The JoyCart.

[ Show youtube player ]

Seems a well thought out solution for both right- and lefthanders with Happ style joystick and Sanwa style buttons. Good price and supports 3 buttons + up (and more, it seems?)

[Solo Kazuki]

Originally Posted by Photon

I put my Sanwa stick through its paces but ghost triggers of the opposite direction still happen occasionally. The thickness of the board didn't help with the ball top either. I put in a long Happ bathandle instead and that was what my build needed.Recently came across The JoyCart. [ Show youtube player ]Seems a well thought out solution for both right- and lefthanders with Happ style joystick and Sanwa style buttons. Good price and supports 3 buttons + up (and more, it seems?)

Yes. JoyCart have Sanwa stick and Sanwa style (but not Sanwa) buttons. Supports 3 buttons + button mapped as up direction + autofire (1st button). Thanks to exchangeable "carts" and interfaces it can be used with many platforms.

[TommyTomorrow]

I can recommend Joycart, it's a great product but the only drawback is the long waiting time for the order because it is not a mass, factory production, these joysticks are made by Larek, one of the fans of retro computers (and author of the atari 8bit "Laura" game). The advantage is that you only pay before shipping.

[Photon]

I'm currently beta testing 3rd button support in HID2AMI, which would be great!

Using HID2AMI could allow to easily switch to gamepads for some games, which can be quite cheap and still decent quality (better than CD32 pads) or comfy fave console controllers, and also to USB joysticks, including e.g. remakes of favorite joysticks like the Competition Pro.

It could also allow to buy or build a single joystick, and move it between Amiga and emulation, saving cost.

The problem (back on topic) is I've seen no genuine Happ Controls-based USB joysticks with quality buttons. All I get in searches is Fighting Sticks and similar. When I search for kits to put in my own, all the kits are huge, shallow boxes that can't fit arcade joysticks and only some arcade buttons.

Does anyone such USB joysticks or kits? I could just plaster a kit board onto my "top panel only" joysticks, but I'm thinking of others than me and how they would find out if they like tighter joysticks and normal microswitch buttons over the established larger-throw, more wobbly buttons of the established Fighting Sticks.

[nikosidis]

Originally Posted by Photon

I was not only talking about second hand joysticks, and I don't agree that they have to be bad, if the seller risks his reputation, such as here, Amibay, or even eBay or Amazon.

Only rubber and bubble buttons get mushy, blade switches and microswitches last a lifetime!

OK, so if you're used to Sanwa, you can probably make it work fast for you. They have longer travel than retro joysticks and other arcade joysticks, though (less if you mod them, as mentioned). I built mine on a panel that I have across my knees. It's pretty expensive, I think I paid 110 EUR with a few extra buttons and springs.

But there are things like Hori sticks and Sanwa clone kits for 30-40 EUR (minus panel for the latter). These have USB cables, but if you can solder, it's easy to swap that out for a DB9 cable.

Again, what stick do you have in mind? I mean if you like Sanwa I think you should go with Sanwa and make it work with Amiga (after all, Street Fighter type cabinets came after Amiga so new or used such joysticks have simply never been manufactured for Amiga).

Or bring your Amiga into your MAME cabinet somehow?

+1

You can never go wrong with US made TAC-II but it is 1 button only and does not suit all, but most games.

For brad new alternative that at least Amiga Bill likes. Not tried myself, but I build some joysticks and this one seams solid!

https://tgsjoystick.wordpress.com/

[Photon]

Originally Posted by nikosidis

+1

You can never go wrong with US made TAC-II but it is 1 button only and does not suit all, but most games.

For brad new alternative that at least Amiga Bill likes. Not tried myself, but I build some joysticks and this one seams solid!

https://tgsjoystick.wordpress.com/

It does look solid, and also comes in right-handed! (I guess I should share this thread here to explain why I want more than two buttons. )

As a reflection to this topic,

Originally Posted by RedAvatar

Being new to the actual Amiga hardware I'm surprised how many games absolutely demand a joystick! Sensible Soccer back in my DOS days was played exclusively by keyboard and that's how I like it

I've encountered this once before. This is completely up to platforms lacking (good/widespread) joystick support. So 1970s/CP/M/UK computers/PC(DOS). On all of the rest, games (except flight sims with 40+ controls) have always been played with joystick or controller. It can't be a total surprise?

I don't say it's always the best input type, but the struggles with keyboard controlled games have been real. It's just not immersive to play driving games, platformers or shooters with cursor keys and space... for some puzzle games like Tetris it works, and I could see it being preferred.

You do need a good one, so the topic is very fair.

[Dunny]

I'm using an ArcadeR on my miggy atm, as well as on my speccy. They're superb.

https://www.sintech-shop.co.uk/arcad...ga-etc/a-10559

[atalante]

Well, I created my own Joystick using parts from an old, broken one. The basis was a DIY joystick from aliexpress. Now I have to say that no joystick from the 90s is as good. It's worth making one yourself or buying something contemporary.

https://forum.thecompany.pl/amiga-ha...zyl-t8545.html

[Adropac2]

I've been trying a few joysticks this and last year and I've reached a slightly different conclusion. I had believed I'd found something close to the Zipstick from buying a joystick from an ebayer and although it was more accurate than the arcader r, it wasn't quite as good as I first though. On paper I assumed the arcader r would have been perfect but I'm very imprecise with it when it comes to feeling I can hit directions every time. The biggest test I find is in seeing if you can randomly hit diagonals first time. A simply test for me is on Way of the exploding fist on the C64 which I am impeccably good at in terms of my accuracy to directions but with newer joysticks there is an inconsistency on most I use but most certainly the arcader r being the worst culprit despite looking and feeling absolutetly gorgeous

Something pointed out to me on here is that there is quite a lot of travel with these newer joysticks and that inevitibly leads to falling out of the direction easier. It's something the arcader does all the time for me and it was never something I ever even thought could happen using the the Zipstick for example which to be fair was very accurate

The only joystick I would personally recomend these days is the Zipstick still which was the original joystick I had way back but figured it might me difficult to get one in a well working condition and so didn't pursue it. It's very easy though to do a light bit of maintenance to identify where issues may be and swapping out of some new crouzet switches to return a £25 used zipstick joystick back to it's greatness. So easy to repair that I've got quite a few now but you will likely need to change all four direction micro switches. With the Zipstick I don't need to think about how accurate my play will be but for something like the arcader, I end up thinking or focusing in a way I never did because I know it's not guaranteed with these sticks

I also agree that making your own even once you have the concept from putting one together is actually not at all daunting especially if working towards the principle of say the Zipstick because it's just connecting the lead to the switches and then your own design around this to allow for what you demand of it

I've spent too much on new joysticks recently to realise you're better off buying and repairing the best of the past or do your own based on those designs

Oh but finally there is also the new usb Competition pro Speedlink which are so offensively loud that you want to wear ear protectors but they are in fact incredibly accurate, very little travel but also require much more push to click those switches. Incredibly accurate though even more so than the particularly accurate Zipstick and very cheap frankly. It's essentially the same stick that was released again some years ago with 9pin. Probably the best stick you can get just in terms of 100% accuracy if you don't mind the excessive noise and some extra force needed to move the stick than you are used to. Swapping out to less resistive switches of course will reduce the noise and resistance and may be worth trying out of curiosity to see if accuracy is maintained

[NorthWay]

I'm a believer in "The Arcade" / "The Arcade Turbo" / "The Arcade Professional"(rocking horse shit rare - anyone know one for sale?).
I also have a Maverick 128 that I'm intending to try and see if I can love it too (ok, that was a lie - I have two. Both bladeswitch(got the wrong one) and microswitch.)

I'm currently on a shopping spree, buying parts to make adapters and also modify the sticks with variable autofire, two-button support for C= 64/Amiga and spacebar support for C= 64 on button#2. I'm still clueless about how to turn an active-low signal (regular firebutton and Amiga button#2 standard) into an active-high that the C= 64 wants on its POTX input - this will probably become an educational journey.