Why so few NEW Amiga intros, demos, etc.? - Page 2

bonkers · 14 August 2009, 07:53

The amiga scene is far from dead. Clearly there is less releases than before but there are plenty of reasons for that. One thing being that most people active on amiga have been so for a good long while, they have released quite a few productions and are therefore not interested in releasing something if they aren't happy with it, releasing something just for the sake of having a production isn't worth it anymore. Secondly, the expectations from the scene has risen enourmously over just the last 5-6 years, Amiga demos now are expected to have a ridicoulous amount of content, people aren't interested in simpler demos any more. Just look at recent TBL/Nature/Elude stuff, doing all that 8-bit,shadetable,... content is a huge effort. So it's not just that we had more time when we were 15, making a demo of 2009 quality takes a lot more time. I find it kinda weird but to me the Amiga has somehowe become the most graphics driven platform of all. Of course there is also a lack of coders but that has been the case for a long good while.

However, there couldn't be a better time to enter the scene for people here who are interested. It isn't that hard to get started and one good thing about the amiga scene compared to any other scene is that there isn't much elitism around these days and people are really very helpful.

Maren · 14 August 2009, 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crown

Why so few NEW Amiga intros, demos, etc.?

So few? ADA's demo archive reports 14 productions for this year alone

The c64 outsold the Amiga by a shitload of millions, so naturally you're going to get a proportionally smaller amount of fan work, but still, 14 productions are 14 productions! you may or may not like them, but the effort and man-hours behind them are no small potatoes, it's not that they're making a powerpoint slideshow

If anything, I'm thrilled by the lack of OCS-specific demos, don't care much for the rest.

TCD · 14 August 2009, 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maren

If anything, I'm thrilled by the lack of OCS-specific demos, don't care much for the rest.

I think they all that would do OCS demos these days are in the C64 scene...

Maren · 14 August 2009, 14:09

Treason

Crown · 15 August 2009, 08:51

Guys,

As I wrote in this thread, the C64 scene is far more active when it comes to releases. SO the explanation of "people are aging, don't have spare time, etc." seems irrelevant as C64 coders/musicians/GFXians do find the time.

StingRay · 15 August 2009, 09:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crown

Guys,

As I wrote in this thread, the C64 scene is far more active when it comes to releases. SO the explanation of "people are aging, don't have spare time, etc." seems irrelevant as C64 coders/musicians/GFXians do find the time.

Why don't you join the C64 scene instead of whining here? You don't give a shit what people write in the thread here anyway and act just plain arrogant and clueless. There are a lot of valid reasons given here in the thread why there are not as many Amiga demos released anymore as back in the past. If that is irrelevant for you, why don't you just code demos yourself, you seem to know it all better anyway.

hitchhikr · 15 August 2009, 11:50

Quote:

As for design, I always liked one aspect of ST-Demo's we never really saw on the Amiga. Most Amiga demo's are "film-strip" demos where each scene plays one after another. But some ST-Demos bolted on an interactive "game" as a menu where each "screen" could be selected by entering a room on a platformer, or a building in a 3D landscape etc.

That concept was more used on Atari ST, Amstrad CPC or MSX, there's a megademo on Amiga with such menu, tho: Darkness Megademo

Crown: Do you have any examples of your work ?

Frog · 15 August 2009, 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

As for design, I always liked one aspect of ST-Demo's we never really saw on the Amiga. Most Amiga demo's are "film-strip" demos where each scene plays one after another. But some ST-Demos bolted on an interactive "game" as a menu where each "screen" could be selected by entering a room on a platformer, or a building in a 3D landscape etc.

As an ex ST-(Lov)owner i also like quite a lot those Main Menu.

You can find Jochen Hippel Sound Demo by Axis which use this concept.

Crown · 16 August 2009, 10:36

StingRay: If my answers do not please you, simply do not read this thread. No use to express your bitter feelings here. I am an Amiga scener, not C64, yet I pay some interest at what happens on the C64. Maybe you should too.

Btw, I am sorry to say that neither you nor me represent all the sceners. As such I am interested in not having the only opinion of yours (which you've expressed already) but to hear the opinion of other sceners on that matter. Do you understand?

hitchhikr: You can find some of the stuff I have done on kestra (CRB and TDD).

StingRay · 16 August 2009, 11:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crown

StingRay: If my answers do not please you, simply do not read this thread. No use to express your bitter feelings here. I am an Amiga scener, not C64, yet I pay some interest at what happens on the C64. Maybe you should too.

Your answers just show me that you don't have much clue of the actual Amiga scene which is why I react in the way I do. All you do is complain about the 'oh so dead' Amiga scene giving the C64 scene as reference and stuff which just doesn't work.
And speaking of the C64 scene, how do you know that I'm not interested in it? I know a lot of people from the c64 scene personally so that's just another one of your rather clueless arguments.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crown

Btw, I am sorry to say that neither you nor me represent all the sceners. As such I am interested in not having the only opinion of yours (which you've expressed already) but to hear the opinion of other sceners on that matter. Do you understand?

Many other people here gave good reasons, you call them "irrelevant". Now show me what you can do, I'm eagerly waiting for a demo done by you. Walk the walk, don't just talk the talk.

yoki · 16 August 2009, 13:49

what i like about the c64-scene is that they still do c64-effects in new fresh ways.. i'd like to see some of that spirit in the amigascene too instead of the <50hz c2p-powered demos that probably take ages to develop but still would have looked better on a PC at the end of the day...

Crown · 16 August 2009, 16:24

StingRay: Sorry you won't manage to piss me off, your angry words simpky give me a good laugh.

Btw, you seem to misread my posts so please take some time and read them through another time. And I suggest that you would read: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=46700 !

I joined the Amiga scene long before 2000 and the birth of Scarab, and don't worry I am still following new releases pretty eagerly not thinking that TALENTED sceners couldn't release great demos these days. ehehhe

I stick to what I am good at. Maybe you should do the same. Leave the bitter speach to old people.

hitchhikr · 16 August 2009, 19:32

Crown: nothing more recent than that ?

pmc · 16 August 2009, 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crown

I believe that a bunch of EAB users could do something great, all together.

Well, you may be right. Me and Vortex are writing bits of code for a new old skool megademo at the moment (Hi there back StingRay

).

We've already talked about hopefully being able to draft in some EAB help for some original graphics and music once we've pulled a few routines together. So, sometime soon we might get a chance to test your theory.

While you might be right about the potential of an EAB collective, I'm not sure I agree with you about some other stuff in relation to the Amiga scene or lack of available time being an issue.

Encouragement rather than criticism is the way to motivate people.

Photon · 17 August 2009, 05:12

Why so few new Amiga demos?

This is a plain question and I think it wasn't put out there to annoy the few who are active, but to find reasons (and maybe work to fix them??

). Well, Stingray and others have given you a few reasons why.

C64 scene is active.

Activity of one platform is perfectly unrelated to any other platform - "PC scene is active, why isn't the Mac scene?". If you're asking why coders are attracted to this platform over others, maybe it's because it's a) a fixed platform - easy to fight for the top and b) a more limited platform - which makes new effects an even more impressive feat - the coder who can overcome the limits gets much respect - but not so limited demos can't still sound and look cool. Compare with MSX (not fixed) or Spectrum (hard to make demos that have gfx you want to put on your wall or music you want to put on your mp3 player).

Reasons a and b for C-64 above is why I personally like to root for OCS ("1MB A500") as platform - it was the home computer everyone had, like the C-64.

Maybe also Stingray meant that it's not THAT inactive. There's quite a few prods released each year.

Crown · 17 August 2009, 08:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Photon

This is a plain question and I think it wasn't put out there to annoy the few who are active, but to find reasons (and maybe work to fix them??

).

Hi Photon,

You're absolutely right with that and you raised a good point. Actually that question was in my mind after the LCP party and speaking with (ex) Amiga sceners that nowadays mostly release stuff on C64.

Hitch: My latest releases happened a long time ago, that's why I miss working on a amiga releases.

PMC: This is real great news. I am looking forward to watching the demo. As Photon explained, I am not complaining but trying to find reasons for that situation.

Toffee · 18 August 2009, 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmc

Well, you may be right. Me and Vortex are writing bits of code for a new old skool megademo at the moment (Hi there back StingRay

).

We've already talked about hopefully being able to draft in some EAB help for some original graphics and music once we've pulled a few routines together. So, sometime soon we might get a chance to test your theory.

While you might be right about the potential of an EAB collective, I'm not sure I agree with you about some other stuff in relation to the Amiga scene or lack of available time being an issue.

Encouragement rather than criticism is the way to motivate people.

I wouldn't mind writing one old school effect if you would like me to contribute ?

Firthy2002 · 19 August 2009, 00:15

The list of 2009 Amiga releases on pouet.net is quite large already.

So saying that there are "few" is quite an understatement. It's probably "few" compared to the height of the Amiga, but that's life.

If you've got a problem with it, release some yourself...

Photon · 19 August 2009, 02:37

Well, now you have a coder Crown, form a group! It must have a really cool name and logo .... and a cool slogan!... and make a really cool disklabel in DPaint for the release... rip the music from a game if you have no good musician in the group...

That's how it was done in 1988 :P gogogo!

pmc · 19 August 2009, 12:28

@ Toffee - I don't see any reason why not.

Cool, another member of Retro.

It'd only be good manners for me to get the nod from Vortex as well but I can't see him having any problems with it - he's a nice chap.

Drop me a PM and we'll discuss further.

16 August 2009, 16:24	#32
Crown Demoscener Join Date: May 2006 Location: FR Age: 54 Posts: 460	StingRay: Sorry you won't manage to piss me off, your angry words simpky give me a good laugh. Btw, you seem to misread my posts so please take some time and read them through another time. And I suggest that you would read: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=46700 ! I joined the Amiga scene long before 2000 and the birth of Scarab, and don't worry I am still following new releases pretty eagerly not thinking that TALENTED sceners couldn't release great demos these days. ehehhe I stick to what I am good at. Maybe you should do the same. Leave the bitter speach to old people. Last edited by Crown; 16 August 2009 at 16:38.

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14 August 2009, 07:53	#21
bonkers Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Berkeley, USA Posts: 15	The amiga scene is far from dead. Clearly there is less releases than before but there are plenty of reasons for that. One thing being that most people active on amiga have been so for a good long while, they have released quite a few productions and are therefore not interested in releasing something if they aren't happy with it, releasing something just for the sake of having a production isn't worth it anymore. Secondly, the expectations from the scene has risen enourmously over just the last 5-6 years, Amiga demos now are expected to have a ridicoulous amount of content, people aren't interested in simpler demos any more. Just look at recent TBL/Nature/Elude stuff, doing all that 8-bit,shadetable,... content is a huge effort. So it's not just that we had more time when we were 15, making a demo of 2009 quality takes a lot more time. I find it kinda weird but to me the Amiga has somehowe become the most graphics driven platform of all. Of course there is also a lack of coders but that has been the case for a long good while. However, there couldn't be a better time to enter the scene for people here who are interested. It isn't that hard to get started and one good thing about the amiga scene compared to any other scene is that there isn't much elitism around these days and people are really very helpful.

14 August 2009, 14:09	#24
Maren Banned Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: * Posts: 567	Treason

15 August 2009, 08:51	#25
Crown Demoscener Join Date: May 2006 Location: FR Age: 54 Posts: 460	Guys, As I wrote in this thread, the C64 scene is far more active when it comes to releases. SO the explanation of "people are aging, don't have spare time, etc." seems irrelevant as C64 coders/musicians/GFXians do find the time.

16 August 2009, 10:36	#29
Crown Demoscener Join Date: May 2006 Location: FR Age: 54 Posts: 460	StingRay: If my answers do not please you, simply do not read this thread. No use to express your bitter feelings here. I am an Amiga scener, not C64, yet I pay some interest at what happens on the C64. Maybe you should too. Btw, I am sorry to say that neither you nor me represent all the sceners. As such I am interested in not having the only opinion of yours (which you've expressed already) but to hear the opinion of other sceners on that matter. Do you understand? hitchhikr: You can find some of the stuff I have done on kestra (CRB and TDD).

16 August 2009, 13:49	#31
yoki Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Göteborg / Sweden Posts: 25	what i like about the c64-scene is that they still do c64-effects in new fresh ways.. i'd like to see some of that spirit in the amigascene too instead of the <50hz c2p-powered demos that probably take ages to develop but still would have looked better on a PC at the end of the day...

16 August 2009, 19:32	#33
hitchhikr Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: somewhere else Posts: 523	Crown: nothing more recent than that ?

17 August 2009, 05:12	#35
Photon Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Eksjö / Sweden Posts: 5,652	Why so few new Amiga demos? This is a plain question and I think it wasn't put out there to annoy the few who are active, but to find reasons (and maybe work to fix them?? ). Well, Stingray and others have given you a few reasons why. C64 scene is active. Activity of one platform is perfectly unrelated to any other platform - "PC scene is active, why isn't the Mac scene?". If you're asking why coders are attracted to this platform over others, maybe it's because it's a) a fixed platform - easy to fight for the top and b) a more limited platform - which makes new effects an even more impressive feat - the coder who can overcome the limits gets much respect - but not so limited demos can't still sound and look cool. Compare with MSX (not fixed) or Spectrum (hard to make demos that have gfx you want to put on your wall or music you want to put on your mp3 player). Reasons a and b for C-64 above is why I personally like to root for OCS ("1MB A500") as platform - it was the home computer everyone had, like the C-64. Maybe also Stingray meant that it's not THAT inactive. There's quite a few prods released each year.

19 August 2009, 00:15	#38
Firthy2002 2nd era... Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Leeds, England Age: 40 Posts: 288	The list of 2009 Amiga releases on pouet.net is quite large already. So saying that there are "few" is quite an understatement. It's probably "few" compared to the height of the Amiga, but that's life. If you've got a problem with it, release some yourself...

19 August 2009, 02:37	#39
Photon Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Eksjö / Sweden Posts: 5,652	Well, now you have a coder Crown, form a group! It must have a really cool name and logo .... and a cool slogan!... and make a really cool disklabel in DPaint for the release... rip the music from a game if you have no good musician in the group... That's how it was done in 1988 :P gogogo!

19 August 2009, 12:28	#40
pmc gone Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: completely gone Posts: 1,596	@ Toffee - I don't see any reason why not. Cool, another member of Retro. It'd only be good manners for me to get the nod from Vortex as well but I can't see him having any problems with it - he's a nice chap. Drop me a PM and we'll discuss further.

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