29 September 2015, 15:17 | #21 | |
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29 September 2015, 15:25 | #22 |
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I remember spending most of a day grinding my magic skills on level 5 or 6 making my magicians zo Masters. They were so overpowered, it was great.
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29 September 2015, 16:58 | #23 |
Commodore Collector
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Thanks again for all your input.
Unfortunately, it makes my decision even more difficult Maybe I forgot to mention that I liked Abandoned Places 1 the most. It has great dungeons and real time battles in 3D view, but also a surface world, and also some other RPG elements like trading, visiting towns, etc. Food and water was needed, but it was possible to create it by magic later, so it was not an issue. Spells could be written into a spellbook and selected from there, so this was a lot more comfortable than in DM. I also like EOB I & II a lot, but somehow they were missing the surface world I was used to from Abandoned Places. Anyone tried Abandones Places II ? I know I would like it, but question is if it is completable, or way too long and difficult ? (from what I have heard ?!) |
29 September 2015, 17:47 | #24 |
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Play " Bloodwych " it's a great rpg and you can play 2 player.
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29 September 2015, 20:37 | #25 | ||
Code Kitten
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Yup, it is the first big one and still the best (on the Amiga) IMO.
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They forms a very coherent (overall) system and you can actually find spells yourself if you take the time to analyze how it works. That is actually one of the strengths of DM to have a sensible magical language which you can master on your own independently of the quest. If you spend 10-20 minutes learning and writing down the runes you will not have to remember the spells because you wil be able to formulate them almost as sentences. It is really empowering when you pass that stage and you will enjoy the game much more afterward. Also I must second the DM recommendation, it is the richest of the dungeon crawlers, although EOB and BlackCrypt (which I like too) are more beautiful they are much less well designed both UI wise and quest wise. I should add that you should only play it at night with headphones and no lights. Scared the kangaroo out of me several times. |
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29 September 2015, 21:56 | #26 | |||||
son of 68k
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Quite odd you gave up for DM but finished EOB2, which is much harder than DM.
Note : my version is the one and only DM with an automapper Not surprising... The party is only 2 chars IIRC. Something i just HATE. I finished it Nah. In some point CSB might be easier, as you start with a stronger party. It's only that the dungeon is non-linear. Quote:
Quite problematic on an unexpanded A1200, though (too slow, occasionnal crash). But it's overall quite good, with the best monster AI i've seen. Quote:
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Yup. For the split screen I second that. Quote:
Amberstar is quite tough at start, you must know where to go and what to do there. Ambermoon is very good - but the 3D stuff doesn't add anything useful IMO. I played and finished many. Evil's doom is one of the best (if you like dungeon games with an adventure part). You may try Bloodwych, it doesn't have the DM runic system but is otherwise quite close. It's true that Captive has no end. It just loops, should you play the 10000 pseudo-randomly generated maps... If you like having many characters and switch between them often, try Legend of Faerghail. If you're not afraid to play with a joystick (and see a little bit of strategy on top of a dungeon crawler game as a good thing) you may want to try Whale's voyage. Quote:
DM has a very powerful, very flexible engine, which allows the richest puzzles. Many custom dungeons exist for it, not only by me. Last edited by TCD; 29 September 2015 at 22:19. Reason: Back-to-back posts merged. |
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29 September 2015, 22:27 | #27 | |||||
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Dungeon Master - Starts out very easy and gets moderately difficult. Chaos Strikes Back - Starts out very difficult and I didn't play it long enough to figure out how difficult it gets. Legend of Skullkeep - Starts out easy and gets mildly difficult. Much of Legend of Skullkeep is outside but with limits on travel. Quote:
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power, 4 = magic torch power, 4, 4 = fireball power, 3, 3, 5 = lightning bolt power, 5, 2 = weaken non-material beings power, 3, 1 = poison cloud These are off the top of my head and I haven't played for awhile so there could be mistakes. It would have been better if the spell recipes would have been randomized at the start of each game (the symbol which represents fire, cold, poison, etc. could have changed). Also, 6x6 or 7x7 symbols would have made it much more difficult to discover spell recipes by experimenting which is a joke once a character has enough mana. Some kind of short cut system for known recipes may have helped playability though. I wouldn't say the spell casting system of DM is one of its strengths but some people like it. Quote:
Dungeon Master Graphics: 5/10 Sound: 10/10 Music: - User Interface: 6/10 Character Building: 6/10 Level design and puzzles: 9/10 (only knock is too linear) Playability: 8/10 Atmosphere: 7/10 Black Crypt Graphics: 9/10 Sound: 5/10 Music: 10/10 User Interface: 10/10 Character Building: 4/10 Level design and puzzles: 3/10 Playability: 7/10 Atmosphere: 5/10 EOB 1 Graphics: 8/10 Sound: 6/10 Music: - User Interface: 5/10 Character Building: 6/10 Level design and puzzles: 7/10 Playability: 8/10 Atmosphere: 7/10 EOB 2 Graphics: 9/10 Sound: 7/10 Music: 8/10 User Interface: 6/10 Character Building: 6/10 Level design and puzzles: 6/10 Playability: 8/10 Atmosphere: 8/10 Last edited by matthey; 29 September 2015 at 22:32. |
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30 September 2015, 00:04 | #28 |
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Never played Bloodwych, but it is something of a predecessor to Hired Guns, and it looks decent. There is one game-ending bug, though (something about a merchant offering you an item and if you refuse, you never get it again and are stuck forever).
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30 September 2015, 08:24 | #29 | ||
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30 September 2015, 11:01 | #30 | |||
son of 68k
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These people shouldn't be playing dungeon crawlers (or any RPG) at all, since i can't remember a single one of such games which does not have a food system in one way or another... |
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30 September 2015, 14:46 | #31 |
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Not that I know of, unless you find stat boosting potions abuse.
Indeed. People even complain about food if all that hunger does is prevent life regeneration (Grimrock 2). True story... |
30 September 2015, 14:53 | #32 |
son of 68k
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30 September 2015, 15:58 | #33 | |
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There is some info on the game and the bug here..... http://www.angusm.demon.co.uk/AGDB/DBA1/BloodWy.html |
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30 September 2015, 16:15 | #34 |
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30 September 2015, 17:34 | #35 | |
son of 68k
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Yes, so it's not as easy as a glop |
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30 September 2015, 17:35 | #36 |
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Put meynaf and Thorham in the same room, and you get a DM' grind.
It's cool at parties. For a little fee, they can be at your party! PM me for sending me money. |
30 September 2015, 17:40 | #37 |
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Ok, I digged out my old maps for Dungeon Master and Black Crypt yesterday, after about 15 years for DM, and 10 years for Black Crypt....
DM maps go up to level 8, so that seems to be where we gave up for some reason. I cannot remember exactly why ?! Maybe we just gave up because of lack of time to meet and play, or something alike ?! At least I remember those red worms in some later level, which were tedious because they re-spawned (something I hate in all games) However, I also remember that we killed them again to gain some food and experience ? The rune system was not a blocking issue, but a bit uncomfortable. I would have preferred to have the speels in a list, where I can just select it during the real time combat. It simply take too much time to assemble a spell, when you are busy with clicking on the warriors's weapon hands during a fight, imho. Food and water never was much of an issue for my friend and me, since we had the habit to explore and map a dungeon completely first, no matter what it cost. Then once the map was completed, we rushed through it in the fastest way possible, including killing all monsters and picking up all items, and then save the game again. This way we played the levels in a very optimized way, without having to consume too much food & water. But thanks for all the input again to all of you. I might want to try DM again, or maybe also start again with DM II ? As for Black Crypt, the old maps I have stop at level 3, so we obviously didn't get very far in that game before we gave up. I also seem to remember that there might have been some bug, which made us stop playing ? (I think we somehow got into a level where we shoud have been much later in the game, and couldn't kill the enemies, or something ?! I also still have the old savegame disks(s), so I could try again (but I probably have no idea where I was and what I would need to do next, and so on...) One more question: What do you guys think about 'Spirit of Adventure' ? It is a German game, so no idea if it is known to non German speaking people ? It looks like a 'Blades of Destiny Light' to me ? Also, it seems there is no real 3D dungeon crawling, but more like '3D city crawling' ? |
30 September 2015, 18:36 | #38 |
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Could it be that Level 8 is the one where if you don't have a magical box to freeze everything it's pretty hard a level? I don't remember.
I'd start with DM. Make sure you play the later version of the game. |
30 September 2015, 20:31 | #39 | |||||
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Dungeons of Avalon These look like EOB (look really good). I believe I tried to get one of them to work and couldn't. http://hol.abime.net/449 http://hol.abime.net/450 Legends of FaerGhail This is more Bard's Tale style. Olaf "Olsen" Barthel is one of the coders . http://hol.abime.net/860 Last edited by matthey; 30 September 2015 at 22:03. |
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01 October 2015, 04:50 | #40 | ||||||
Code Kitten
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A few years later, I took the time to grab a map (in Tilt magazine) and played the game again from start to finish, using the map only for areas where I had actually been to so as to not spoil future discoveries and I had a blast (again). Also, the audio is fantastic and full stereo so play it with headphones and at night so that the only sounds you can hear are sure to be coming from the dungeon. Quote:
The purple worms for instance will respawn only if you pass over a particular case. That is also - as you noted - very useful to get food. Quote:
That is the whole point of the spell system: you learn and formulate the spells, which are a completely different thing than the handheld weapons. They can be much more powerful, they can do many very different things using a single system (attacks, potions, protection, visibility, etc.) but they come with a price. It is one of DM's greatest feats to have made the spells themselves a game in the game. Think of them in the same way as you think of talking: sometimes you mix up words, you mispronounce, etc. But the difficulty of language is balanced by the power it gives (communication, invention, story telling, humor, etc.). Same for the DM spells: slower, harder but more powerful and flexible than any physical weapon overall. It really pays to learn their meaning rather than just remember the numbers. Quote:
Also, with age I think you end up having better strategies so the game is overall more fun to conquer and play. Quote:
I recall about that gold key, I found it on my first play and never dared to use it on regular "gold key" doors for fear it was made only for a special door. Quote:
I have been playing on my physical A500 lately and the tank mouse is just pure torture compared to my optical modern mouse. Very often, the mouse cursor does not move and I have to lift the mouse and retry, the buttons do not register once every four clicks which is one time too much in a game by definition, and the cable is so rigid it actually hinders displacement of the mouse. The tank mouse gets me so upset now that I have decided my next Amiga related purchase will be a USB-adapter. I simply won't play any mouse game until I receive it in the mail. |
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