Martyn Brown (Team 17) Interview

[Adropac2]

I'd probably be one of the first to say that most Team 17 games for me personally weren't the best games I had in my collection but it would be wrong to say they weren't still a big part of the Amiga. And to be fair they did take pride in a high level of polish all round in everything they did. They were essentially a part of Amiga even if I didn't often love their stuff

ATR was probably my most fun time and a 2 player session of one f the Alien Breeds worked well for me. I even enjoyed the first green levels of Super Frog. I was normally always impressed with the work that clearly went into these games but not enough that I played them much Great memories though all the same

I think they deserve respect as part of this history

[ghosty777]

First PD disk I ever bought was from Microbyte (Broadmarsh Centre, Nottingham) back in early 1990 .. 17 bit collection of demos. I only bought 1 disk because they were charging £2.50 a piece! Still, it served as a nice introduction to the scene.

[RichL]

The one in Birmingham used to just give disks and disks away for free. Maybe that’s why the company didn’t last that long. Used to get loads of PD disks from there.

[d4rk3lf]

For me, and from a plain user perspective, Team 17 was awesome.

You bring some friend at home, show him a little bit of Project X, Superfrog, Body Blows, Assassin, and you play a little bit of Arcade Pool with a friend.. immediate Jaw drop.
In these days, you couldn't really tell at first glance how Snes was superior to Amiga 500, and Team 17 games were one of the best to show.
I love their Alien Breed 3D too... it was actually the first game to compete with Doom (not Wolf3D clone), and try to gain with atmosphere, the lack of great gameplay of Doom.

It would be better if we had like 10 companies with similar quality, but since we didn't, Team 17 was pretty special.

[Korban]

Originally Posted by mcgeezer

I honestly fail to see what all of the hype around Team 17 was/is. I know unfortunately I'm in the minority here but apart from Alien Breed I found Team 17 games lacking in gameplay.....

I've said a similar thing many times. Usually results in the scorn of other Amiga enthusiasts :P

I loved Alien Breed for about 30 minutes.... initially great atmosphere, but quickly grew bored of it. By the end of the 1st time I played it in fact. And once you've played it for half an hour you've basically seen the entire game.
Superfrog would have to be in contention for most over rated Amiga game ever. All presentation, but game wise it's the epitome of mediocrity.
Body Blows barely reaches mediocrity. Project X, ditto.
They had a knack for cloning popular games of their day while entirely missing the point of what made the games they cloned good. The gulf between their best games and what was average on megadrive and snes was huge. Definitely not the way to showcase the Amiga at the time. Looked good in screenshots, but once the games are up and running that gap is huge.

Their best stuff was games they published, but weren't produced in-house.
I did like the Alien Breed3d games though.

[dreadnought]

Originally Posted by Korban

I've said a similar thing many times. Usually results in the scorn of other Amiga enthusiasts :P

Probably because your take is on the other end of the extreme spectrum, and that's no better than the one where Team 17 are infallible Amiga Gods

Are Assasin, Project X, Superforg et al mediocre? Sure, you could say that (especially with the 2022 hindsight), but they are also pretty solid nonetheless, and were written for hardware inferior to MD / SNES. And if you really think that the gulf between them and average offerings from these consoles is "huge" then either our definitions of average vary wildly, or you haven't actually played that many of their games.

And their best stuff is Alien Breed / Worms, which were produced in house.

[jotd]

I really enjoyed Superfrog. Will not play that through again. Same for Body Blows Galactic. But Alien Breed series are the best, it's true.

Arcade Pool is pretty good too. I still launch a game from time to time.

[Korban]

Originally Posted by dreadnought

Probably because your take is on the other end of the extreme spectrum, and that's no better than the one where Team 17 are infallible Amiga Gods

Are Assasin, Project X, Superforg et al mediocre? Sure, you could say that (especially with the 2022 hindsight), but they are also pretty solid nonetheless, and were written for hardware inferior to MD / SNES. And if you really think that the gulf between them and average offerings from these consoles is "huge" then either our definitions of average vary wildly, or you haven't actually played that many of their games.

And their best stuff is Alien Breed / Worms, which were produced in house.

Does signing a product significantly into development (Total Wormage) qualify as "in-house"?
Id argue not.
And no, saying something is mediocre definitely isn't the opposite of infallible, nor is it an extreme perspective in any way, shape or form. Didnt even say they're bad. Mediocre means,...... *shock horror* mediocre.

Specs are also moot when it comes to quality of a game, so the fact snes and megadrive are technically superior is irrelevant. Team 17's clones of popular titles simply didnt come close to what was available on those systems in terms of the actual games. The Amiga itself is in the ballpark minus parallax and a few other niceties to be able to capable of games of a similar quality.

And their best stuff is in the eye of the beholder.

[skan]

Originally Posted by Korban

And their best stuff is in the eye of the beholder.

Exactly, and that works both ways.

[nikosidis]

Thanks for the interview. Really interesting and nice.
Team 17 was my fav.. Amiga game developer back in the day.
Superfrog, Super Stardust, Worms, ATR, Alien Breed.
What more can you say

[d4rk3lf]

Originally Posted by jotd

Arcade Pool is pretty good too. I still launch a game from time to time.

Yeah.. me too.. love the tournament mode...
And Martin Brown often kicks my ass.

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by Korban

Does signing a product significantly into development (Total Wormage) qualify as "in-house"?
Id argue not.
And no, saying something is mediocre definitely isn't the opposite of infallible, nor is it an extreme perspective in any way, shape or form. Didnt even say they're bad. Mediocre means,...... *shock horror* mediocre.

Specs are also moot when it comes to quality of a game, so the fact snes and megadrive are technically superior is irrelevant. Team 17's clones of popular titles simply didnt come close to what was available on those systems in terms of the actual games. The Amiga itself is in the ballpark minus parallax and a few other niceties to be able to capable of games of a similar quality.

And their best stuff is in the eye of the beholder.

Worms likely should be considered in-house, although it started externally, Andy Davidson was working in Team 17's offices where it was developed further and conversion work was underway for other formats.

[kremiso]

i have a little off topic question

the group that developed X2 (the sequel to Project X) on Playstation1, was it the same one from the Amiga period?

EDIT nevermind, just found myself
little bigger and different (expecially fmv and audio)
http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/psx/a/x2-5.png

[dreadnought]

Originally Posted by Korban

And no, saying something is mediocre definitely isn't the opposite of infallible, nor is it an extreme perspective in any way, shape or form. Didnt even say they're bad. Mediocre means,...... *shock horror* mediocre.

Stating that some of their games were mediocre is absolutely fine, and what most of us said here already (it was also a norm for any bigger company). Problem is that you made it look as if their entire output was average, which is simply not true.

Originally Posted by Korban

Specs are also moot when it comes to quality of a game, so the fact snes and megadrive are technically superior is irrelevant. Team 17's clones of popular titles simply didnt come close to what was available on those systems in terms of the actual games.

Sorry, but saying that hardware specs are irrelevant in videogaming is ridiculous. Sure, gameplay is king, but there's no denying that specs affect eye and ear candy and that in turn makes games more desirable. There's nothing wrong with Superfrog's gameplay, for example, but the game does look a bit drab, and if they had more resources it could be possibly pushed to another level more easily.

You have also switched goalposts from talking about "what was average on MD/SNES" to "what was available on these systems", which is rather unfair in the context we are talking about. Comparing T17's average games to the best ones on the consoles would indeed reveal a huge gap, but that's not what I was replying to. Their average stuff is about on par with average console games, sans some trendy license and/or gfx/sfx.

Overall, criticizing them is fine, as long as we keep some sort of balance and perspective. Otherwise, I can dismiss just about any famous studio using these methods. Valve? Lucked out with HL, then bought everything else. Nintendo? Once you played 30 mins of Mario or Zelda you've seen everything. Psygnosis? Not even one in-house hit. Etc, etc

[lilwshu]

Originally Posted by dreadnought

Stating that some of their games were mediocre is absolutely fine, and what most of us said here already (it was also a norm for any bigger company). Problem is that you made it look as if their entire output was average, which is simply not true.

I can't think of anything developed by them that wasn't average/mediocre/whatever. I bought quite a few of their games because they were pretty (Body Blows, Assassin, Alien Breed spring to mind) but hardly played them.

Originally Posted by dreadnought

Sorry, but saying that hardware specs are irrelevant in videogaming is ridiculous. Sure, gameplay is king, but there's no denying that specs affect eye and ear candy and that in turn makes games more desirable. There's nothing wrong with Superfrog's gameplay, for example, but the game does look a bit drab, and if they had more resources it could be possibly pushed to another level more easily.

I would say the best thing about Team 17's output was the graphics and sound. Despite this Superfrog for example manages to be extremely tedious compared to something like Super Mario Bros on the NES or Sonic 2 on the Master System which are running on systems with inferior specs, so I don't think hardware power has anything to do with it.

[stainy]

They have ( Team 17 ) have a VR game coming out soon.

[str0m]

@dreadnought "The real problem with Project X is that controls feel laggy and sluggish" go into options and change the ship. The default one has massive inertia which feels like lag, it's listed as a stat next to it, think there are 3 to chose from, the others are nicer to control

[RichL]

Originally Posted by stainy

They have ( Team 17 ) have a VR game coming out soon.

Is it Worms VR?

[gimbal]

Originally Posted by RichL

Is it Worms VR?

That MIGHT be fun maybe... perhaps Worms 3D actually works in VR.

But no, it's a new IP.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1...ler_Frequency/

A "safe" bet, horror games tend to do very well in VR.

[DanScott]

Looks like a PS2 game (in terms of graphics quality)